School field trip permission & release form - what does it mean?

[mrcozza]

Pennsylvania

My daughter's public school has a standard field trip permission and release form that contains legal jargon and references to Pennsylvania statutes by section number, but does not reproduce the relevant text of the statutes on the form. I am reluctant to sign the form because, frankly, I don't fully understand it. I am a professional engineer and have dealt with many legal documents and contracts, so I'm comfortable with them. However this one just seems to lack full definition. My dilemma is that I want my daughter to go on the trip, but I don't want to sign away her legal rights in case she sustains an injury while on the trip. I want her to have the same legal rights while on the trip as she has when at the school. Here is the paragraph in question:

"In consideration of the agreement of the xxxxxxxx School District to allow my child to participate in the above described outing, and intending to be legally bound hereby, I agree to indemnify and hold harmless the xxxxxxxxx School District, its employees, agents, successors, assigns and legal representatives, aganst any loss from any and all claims, demands and actions at law or in equity that my(SIC) hereafter at any time be brought by my child, or anyone acting on his or her behalf, for the purpose of enforcing a claim for damages because of any injury to my child to the extend(SIC) the school district, its employees, agents, successors, assigns and legal representatives are immune to such claims under the Political Subdivision Tort Claims Act 42 Pa.C.S.A. (section) 8541 et al."

I have asked the school for an explanation of the above in plain english, specifically regarding the referenced material, but so far they refused to provide it. I want my daughter to go on the trip, so I attached a letter to the form and signed it, with a note referencing the letter. The letter says that I agree to allow her to go, as long as I am not signing away any of her legal rights. Now I am in a heavy discussion with the principal, who seems also not to understand the technicalities of the form, but who is deferring to orders from the school district's attorney that I can't attach a letter to the form. They have a "take it or leave it" attitude at the moment.

My questions:

1. Do I have a right to demand an explanation in plain english?
2. What rights am I giving up if I sign the form?
3. Are there any alternatives that will still permit my daughter to go on the field trip (and future field trips)?

[WILLIAA]

That basically says that if your child dies or get injured for some reason on the trip, you won't sue them. If your married, have hubby sign it and you don't. I sign them all the time.

The thing is that if anything short of death did go wrong, your child could get an attorney and sue them himself. or your husband could do it. It doesn't stop anything really.

[Silverplum]

Originally Posted by WILLIAA

That basically says that if your child dies or get injured for some reason on the trip, you won't sue them. If your married, have hubby sign it and you don't. I sign them all the time.

The thing is that if anything short of death did go wrong, your child could get an attorney and sue them himself. or your husband could do it. It doesn't stop anything really.

Williaa, you've gone too far with your nonsense. Cite the applicable PA statutes for your (ridiculous) statements, or start deleting.

Poster, beware of clueless newbies who bounce around the site and offer random "advice."

[FlyingRon]

Why are you inserting (SIC)

1. Do I have a right to demand an explanation in plain english?

It is plain English.

2. What rights am I giving up if I sign the form?

You're saying you won't sue them. The statute referenced states even if you sue the local government isn't liable anyhow.

3. Are there any alternatives that will still permit my daughter to go on the field trip (and future field trips)?

Nope, you sign or she don't go.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by WILLIAA

That basically says that if your child dies or get injured for some reason on the trip, you won't sue them. If your married, have hubby sign it and you don't. I sign them all the time.

The thing is that if anything short of death did go wrong, your child could get an attorney and sue them himself. or your husband could do it. It doesn't stop anything really.

Look - if you don't cut it out, you won't be around. This advice is patently wrong.

[WILLIAA]

I'm new her so tell me...Is zinger and Silverplum the only ones who can give advice? You all keep saying my advice is nonsense but actually i'm pretty smart.

I know her child can hire a lawyer because my niece sued my sister over a car accident that they were in. She was 10 years old. Ex-hubby had my niece do it and the insurance company paid.

I know about those releases for field trips because I have a 6 year old and I sign them all the time. I asked my attorney husband what it meant years ago.

[Antigone*of*Greece]

Originally Posted by WILLIAA

I'm new her so tell me...Is zinger and Silverplum the only ones who can give advice? You all keep saying my advice is nonsense but actually i'm pretty smart.

I know her child can hire a lawyer because my niece sued my sister over a car accident that they were in. She was 10 years old. Ex-hubby had my niece do it and the insurance company paid.

I know about those releases for field trips because I have a 6 year old and I sign them all the time. I asked my attorney husband what it meant years ago.

That supposed fact has not come shining through in any ~ I mean any of your posts.

Just because you sign child's permission slips day in and day out doesn't mean you know or understand the verbiage behind the release.

[WILLIAA]

Originally Posted by Wirelessany1

That supposed fact has not come shining through in any ~ I mean any of your posts.

Just because you sign child's permission slips day in and day out doesn't mean you know or understand the verbiage behind the release.

And that is why I asked my husband who has practiced law for over 20 years. He understood the verbiage behind it.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by WILLIAA

And that is why I asked my husband who has practiced law for over 20 years. He understood the verbiage behind it.

**A: oh brother.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by WILLIAA

I know her child can hire a lawyer because my niece sued my sister over a car accident that they were in. She was 10 years old. Ex-hubby had my niece do it and the insurance company paid.

Great - but did you, in your infinite genius, realize that a parent can sign a release on behalf of the child?

Now, if your hubby's been practicing for 20 years, have HIM post, in the mean time, please refrain from posting advice for others.

[HomeGuru]

[quote=WILLIAA;2240887]You all keep saying my advice is nonsense but actually i'm pretty smart.

**A: now that was dumb.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Now, if your hubby's been practicing for 20 years, have HIM post, in the mean time, please refrain from posting advice for others.

**A: good one.

[mrcozza]

Originally Posted by FlyingRon

Why are you inserting (SIC)

It is plain English.

You're saying you won't sue them. The statute referenced states even if you sue the local government isn't liable anyhow.

Nope, you sign or she don't go.

FlyingRon, thanks for your comments. Inserting (sic) is an editorial mark indicating that the included grammatical or spelling error is in the original text, and is not an error in copying. The original document has grammatical errors, and I didn't want people to think that I was incorrectly copying the text. See this wikipedia article for a full explanation: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic]Sic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

OK, you don't like my term "plain English". I hope you understand my point though. In order to understand this form, the parent must either be a lawyer who is already familiar with this part of the Pennsylvania law, or must refer the form to an attorney who is competent in this area, or must go to the law library to look up the referenced law and hope to be able to understand it. All three of those options are unreasonable, in my opinion, when the writer of the form could easily have included the applicable law in plain English so that any normal parent sitting at the kitchen table could understand the form and know what he or she is supposed to sign.

How do you know the content of the PA statute that was referenced? Did you go and look it up? If so, can you forward a link to the full text, or include the applicable text in another post?

I know that there are limits on suing the government, and the public schools being government entities are able to hide behind this protection as well. So, in your opinion, what do they gain by getting us to sign this form anyway? Am I signing something that is already in effect by statute whether I sign the form or not?

Thanks

[perroloco2]

Originally Posted by mrcozza

Pennsylvania

3. Are there any alternatives that will still permit my daughter to go on the field trip (and future field trips)?

The only alternative that I can suggest is to take your daughter to the field trip destination yourself, stay with her throughout the trip, and drive her home afterwards. Depending on district policy, you may or may not be allowed to join the school group, but you can certainly follow them.

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by mrcozza

the writer of the form could easily have included the applicable law in plain English so that any normal parent sitting at the kitchen table could understand the form and know what he or she is supposed to sign.

but you make an error in presuming that whomever is "translating" the statute is doing so properly. A misinterpreted statute is worse than no statute verbiage provided.