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Alzheimers and POA CONDENSED AND EDITED!!!

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woodmancy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Alzheimers and POA Please help!

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What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

My Dad has been diagnosed with AD by his primary doctor. He was also seen by a group of specialists in Sept/Oct 2006. Two more doctors tested and confirmed Alzheimers.He admits he has AD. His wife denies he has it.

November 2006 My Dad reviews and makes significant changes to his POA/DPOA. He signs these documents in Feb 2007. My Dad does not understand his POA , he has said that.

Here is the concern....My Dad was widowed in 1984 at the age of 60 . He has been remarried for 20 years.We will refer to her as" Dotty" Prior to getting married to Dotty he had a pre-nuptial agreement. He has altered his will a few times since his remarriage, going back and forth and appearing to alter some items significantly.

My Dad is very well off and has already given us many gifts. None of us are suffereing. In Feb 2007 My Dad told my oldest brother that "Dotty" was adamant and insisted on being first on the new POA" . My brother is now second on the new POA. My Dad told my youngest sibling that he was concerned that his wife's children would end up inheriting more than his own children.



We do not believe that his attorney was given any written documenatation of his diagnosis.
How valid are documents signed after this diagnosis? How valid is any conversation we have heard ? Some of these newer documents have also changed methods of IRA"s being paid to her. Instead of going into a trust they will now be paid directly to her.

I am saddend to think that in my Dad's condition someone may have taken advantage of him.
I could go on but I need help!
Please respond!What is the name of your state?

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Last edited by woodmancy : Today at 04:15 PM. Reason: too long!
 


BlondiePB

Senior Member
Legal documents signed by dad when he was/is mentally incompetent to do so are not valid. In regards to the IRA , a wife is entitled to IRA's. I don't know too much about IRA's, so someone may correct this. Thanks for the Reader's Digest Condensed version. ;)

Remember, dad & his wife have been married for 20 years. You stated that the rest of the family was well off. Therefore, IMO, so should she.
 

woodmancy

Junior Member
Thanks Blondie.
Nobody wants to leave his wife helpless. Here is a quick example of just one change that we question:
Old : Upon Dad's death, approx 1 million+ in IRA's would go into a trust for wife. She can live off the income and /or petition for additional funds if necessary. Upon her death, the basis of the trust would revert to his 6 kids.(The above amount represents about half of his net worth)
New :Upon Dad's death, the above mentioned money now goes directly to her and not into a trust. She has 3 children.

And just to show it is not about money..The POA states the Agent can waive his attorney-client privileges, receive his mail and waive physician-patient privileges if the Agent deems it to be in his best interest. She sounds as if she is trying to lock us out. We currently have his permission to obtain his med records. I am concerned about his care, not about his money. She continues to deny the diagnosis. Can she keep me from making sure he gets the proper attention he deserves?
;) BTW..he is a devote Catholic. Divorce? NEVER!
and still lets him drive because as she says, who will do the grocery shopping?
Thanks
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Thanks Blondie.
Nobody wants to leave his wife helpless. Here is a quick example of just one change that we question:
Old : Upon Dad's death, approx 1 million+ in IRA's would go into a trust for wife. She can live off the income and /or petition for additional funds if necessary. Upon her death, the basis of the trust would revert to his 6 kids.(The above amount represents about half of his net worth)
New :Upon Dad's death, the above mentioned money now goes directly to her and not into a trust. She has 3 children.

And just to show it is not about money..The POA states the Agent can waive his attorney-client privileges, receive his mail and waive physician-patient privileges if the Agent deems it to be in his best interest. She sounds as if she is trying to lock us out. We currently have his permission to obtain his med records. I am concerned about his care, not about his money. She continues to deny the diagnosis. Can she keep me from making sure he gets the proper attention he deserves?
;) BTW..he is a devote Catholic. Divorce? NEVER!
and still lets him drive because as she says, who will do the grocery shopping?
Thanks
Consult with a guardianship/conservatorship attorney.

Drive... ...! :eek:

Dad needs his licensed revoked.
 

gmurdock

Junior Member
Alzheimers and POA Please help!

My Dad has been diagnosed with AD by his primary doctor. He was also seen by a group of specialists in Sept/Oct 2006. Two more doctors tested and confirmed Alzheimers.He admits he has AD. His wife denies he has it.

November 2006 My Dad reviews and makes significant changes to his POA/DPOA. He signs these documents in Feb 2007. My Dad does not understand his POA , he has said that.

Here is the concern....My Dad was widowed in 1984 at the age of 60 . He has been remarried for 20 years.We will refer to her as" Dotty" Prior to getting married to Dotty he had a pre-nuptial agreement. He has altered his will a few times since his remarriage, going back and forth and appearing to alter some items significantly.

We do not believe that his attorney was given any written documenatation of his diagnosis.
How valid are documents signed after this diagnosis? How valid is any conversation we have heard ? Some of these newer documents have also changed methods of IRA"s being paid to her. Instead of going into a trust they will now be paid directly to her.

I am saddend to think that in my Dad's condition someone may have taken advantage of him.
I could go on but I need help!
Please respond!What is the name of your state?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by woodmancy : Today at 04:15 PM. Reason: too long!
I'm not an attorney but have a few questions and observations for you and for the lawyers to correct if necessary. How do you know your dad is incompetent? A diagnosis of AD does not mean his is incompetent. My dad was competent for at least a year after his diagnosis, probably more. Has his physician signed a statement that he is incompetent? If there were a hearing on that, are there any arms-length witnesses (not any inheritor) who would testify that he was incompetent to handle his money at the time he signed the POA? Are there records that show he made obviously incompetent financial decisions?

I don't believe his attorney needed the diagnosis. That the attorney officiated the POA indicates that the attorney questioned your dad and found him competent to sign the POA. Absent overriding evidence to the contrary, I believe that stands.

I don't believe your observations would carry much weight if your statements would benefit you financially. Dad may have said he didn't understand the POA, including to the attorney, but how many pages of legal mumbo-jumbo were in it? Maybe no amateur could understand it. But if the lawyer offociated it, that also indicates that the lawyer thought he understood it well enough to sign it. Did your dad know what a DPOA does in general?

I assume his wife used the POA to change his estate plan to her benefit. Unless she has the express power to give to herself, and possibly the express power to revoke that specific trust if that's what she did, I believe that would be a violation of fiduciary duty and would not have legal standing. I believe powers to gift usually state conditions, for instance that it was in his best interest or conformed to his intentions regarding the disposition of his estate. Some POAs specifically exclude changing inheritances. What you describe seems like it might violate such provisions if they exist. OTOH, since he was surely competent before the diagnosis, I believe that, even if her changes were rescinded, the last will he and his wife signed would stand. Also, if his wife is doing this stuff through an attorney, I think it will probably stand.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
This is not a free forum-type issue. Just from the comment regarding an IRA having a trust beneficiary, it's clear there is an estate planning attorney involved. The law changed in 2002 regarding QTIPs and a trust may very well be the appropriate vehicle to accomplish the goals of dad, but the rules are quite specific and detailed for the trust to avoid tax problems and only an attorney experienced in such matters should attempt creating one. Prior to 2002 it was the general advice that a trust should not be the primary IRA beneficiary and maybe that's why the terms of things were changed, on review the qualified attorney found the trust did not meet the law's conditions.

Rather than going to attorneys right now, why not talk with everyone involved? See what they're thinking. If dad really can't handle his affairs or understand what is going on, you have problems in determining which DPOA would apply. If it really got down to a court fight, mom (step) would probably win unless there was very strong evidence that dad specifically did not want her to be in charge of his affairs.
 

woodmancy

Junior Member
:) Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply. To answer a few questions you posed:
The definition of competent can easily be challenged. Our concern is that he has admitted he does not understand what he signed. He has stated his wife" insisted and was adamant" about being the DPOA. When asked"Who is your agent?" he does not understand the question until you explain it to him. Furthermore, he signed that he understood what he read. If the definition of competent is...."having suitable or sufficient skill. Adequate but not exceptional".... then does he pass the definition?

I certainly agree with you that the average person(me included!) may not understand all the terms of a DPOA. When I look at his DPOA of 1997 and then the new one of 2007 the size of the document has increased from 4 pages to 14 pages. Many of the articles are fine tuned. To me, the standard "mumbo-jumbo" is still there but there seems to be a whole lot more spelled out as to her "powers". Why the 10 page addition to a document that was written by the same attorney 10 years ago?(Yes, I can appreciate changes in the law etc)
The only current information I have on Dad making financial errors is that for the first time in 38 years at his bank he has made three overdrafts in January 2007. Maybe $800.00 is not a big deal but the circumstances are what is revealing. The first time in 38 years...I have a copy of the bank letter stating so.

As for the ability to change or reverse documents. I have no guarantee that my information is accurate but I have been told by one nurse and one insurance agent that documents signed after a person has been diagnosed with AD by two or more different doctors can be challenged, especially if the new beneficiarys can benefit by the change. If that statement has any truth then at least it is worth a look.

I have to question that the attorney must have known. The attorney is not a doctor and the amount of time he spends in 15-30 minutes reviewing new documents with anyone hardly constitutes the attorney's ability to make any diagnosis that would question the diagnosis of a neuropsychologist. The cover sheet and the last page include statements that release the attorney from any liability. While I suspect this is all standard verse, it does appear like a catch 22. ie."If you don't understand ask an attorney of your choosing for an explanation because this is going to be written in terminology that most people do not understand and on top of it you have a verbal understanding and memory issue going on":confused: The attorney has no obligation to monitor any of the Agents actions or omissions( per the document) so why should he worry about a client fully understanding and remembering what they sign?
Certain relationships are fiduciary as a matter of law, including trustee/beneficiary and principal/agent.
If you have a moment look at this site....it discusses breach of fiduciary duty
http://www.lindlaw.com/breath.htm

It raises a lot of questions about our family concerns.

Plus: Our concerns are more for his health and care. We are concerned that she is a proper guardian. Why?
  • Because we are a very close family of 6 kids and our Mom would have expected that we take care of our Dad. We were raised this way by Mom and by Dad. Period
  • His wife denies the diagnosis
  • refuses to tell him he cannot drive,
  • cancelled his 3 month follow-up doctors appointment when the doctor expressed cleary that he wanted to see Dad before he went to Florida She stated she had social appointments. We feel it might have been because the doctor might question again his ability to drive and she wants no part of that encumberance
  • scheduled an appointment at a 4th doctor because she wants more opinions
  • Based on new appointment it will be 6 months from his last appointment
  • He was bitten by a dog and she did not tell anyone or seek any medical attention for him
I wish it would be that easy to sit down and discuss these issues, as Tranquility suggests.
Oh, if it would be that easy. How do you discuss such topics without hurting your parent? How do you discuss such topics when you already know that she will up and leave the room, and will finish his every sentence? And sadly, when you leave, she will stick to her agenda and not his?
Thanks for reading . and listening. Hopefully others can benefit by these questions also.

woodmancy
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
woodmancy, please see an attorney about guardianship over your father. Though you will not likely be guardian of the person, there's too much inappropriate stuff regarding your father's estate. The court could appoint you guardian of your father's estate with directives regarding your father's wife.

Also, just because one is appointed guardian of a person, that does not mean that the guardian of the person is allowed to make medical decisons for their ward. The court order MUST include Health Care Surrogate/Health Care Proxy who is the one that makes health care decisions regarding the ward.
 

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