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Mentally Incompetent....??

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Nemo7597

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?NEW YORK


In 2002 a relative (MS. X) added me to her property deed joint tenant with right of survivorship, I have lived with her my whole life.

In 2005, another relative forged a check belonging to Ms. X essentially depleting her bank account. I called this relative and told them to put the money back, or i would consult an attorney (I had Ms. X's POA). Before I could do anything, while I was at work one day, these relatives came and picked up Ms. X to take her "out to lunch". Relative's son took Ms. X directly to an attorney and had my POA revoked and him made new POA. After he got her to sign POA, another propertyt that she owned was placed in new POA's name. A few months later, Ms. X signed over her right to our jointly owned property and he is now listed as a joint tenant with me. Also, she had over 40K in savings bonds. He took her to the bank and she cashed them in, she is now living with POA's mother and is keeping the money from the bonds in her dresser drawer. POA and his parents have both gotten new cars. He is being very sneaky, not using his POA to sign papers but having her do it. And I am concerned that this is not all being done voluntarily. She has always wanted the house (that we had jointly owned) to be left for my son. That was her reasonoing for the original joint tenancy between her and myself......what options do I have to get this guy off the deed, if any? Also, right after getting POA, he posted a note on door to the house (where my nameis on the deed) telling me I had 7 days to remove my property or he would dispose of it. I was told by an attorney that since I was living there and my name was on the deed not to worry aobut it. While I was at work, he entered my house and removed my property......I don't want to have her declared MI, but I have no idea what to do....I called the local office of the aging who told me to call adult protective. They went to see her, and with POA there she told them she was fine....so Adult protective said it's none of their business..These ppl only had anything to do with her BEFORE all this if it involved money....she would call and ask them to come see her and then would give them money to come.....Can I ask the court to step in and appoint someone from the court to handle her affairs...?
 


Nemo7597

Junior Member
well, I think that if she had wanted to turn everything she owned to this person she would have done it sometime within the 55 years the person had been alive. The POA has cut her off from the rest of her family members, has her living with his parents. When anyone in the family attempts to contact her they are told she's not there, out for a walk.....no calls are ever returned....the other day a cousin (her nephew) attempted to contact her by phone and the person said she was talking to god, did he want to be put through on a converence call.... They have been doing this for almost 1 year (April) and the rest of the family beleives that they are using intimidation to get her to do this.....One family member did manage to see her for about 20 minutes when they got lucky and the ppl she is with were at the store....she told my aunt that she wanted to come home but that the POA told her she didnt have a home to go back to and that she was too old to take care of herself anyways so she needed to stay where she was....my family have contacted all the agencies that we can think of to contact but no one seems to care that she might be being taken advantage of. Someone suggested we (the family) get a Sheriff dept. to go to the residence with us so we could make sure she is being cared for....when we called we were told they couldnt do that...My aunt explained that the family had already gone to adult protective and they wouldnt do anything..and the Sheriff dept in the civil office said he knew who the guy (AP supervisor) was and that on the occasions that the Sher Dep. had dealt with this guy he had been pretty worthless......I think that says alot...
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Why did you not answer a simple question? What you think says a lot does not say anything at all except that everyone else here, including APS, has found this relative to be competent.
 

Nemo7597

Junior Member
Thats not a question that I can answer....I ahvent seen her in about 2 1/2 years...dont live in the area but as a family we are at a loss as to what to do to protect her from one member of our family...and havent gotten anywhere...hence the reason i asked for advice....
 

ellencee

Senior Member
Nemo7597
APS does not make decisions regarding competency nor does the sheriff's department.

From what you have described, I understand why you are concerned. Only an elder law attorney can advise you. Consult with an elder law attorney and discuss your concerns.

Best wishes,
EC
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Nemo7597 said:
Thats not a question that I can answer....I ahvent seen her in about 2 1/2 years...dont live in the area but as a family we are at a loss as to what to do to protect her from one member of our family...and havent gotten anywhere...hence the reason i asked for advice....
The only way you can do something about this is to petition for guardianship over your relative by having her declared incompetent by the court. Then, with court approval, you can pursue elder abuse, which includes financial exploitation. You will require an attorney that specializes with this and guardianships.
 

ellencee

Senior Member
BlondiePB said:
The only way you can do something about this is to petition for guardianship over your relative by having her declared incompetent by the court. Then, with court approval, you can pursue elder abuse, which includes financial exploitation. You will require an attorney that specializes with this and guardianships.
Not true. The poster should consult with an elder law attorney at his/her earliest convenience.
EC
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree on this one, EC. Though you are correct about APS and the sherrif not being able to declare the OP's relative incompetent, APS can petition the court for guardianship over an alleged incompetent. Then, the alleged incompetent will be seen by an examination committee.

APS can also investigate an alleged incompetent's and/or a vulnerable adult's bank records for embezzelement, financial expoitation of a POA & caretaker, etc. The OP did the right thing in calling APS. The problem here is that APS found nothing wrong and did not pursue any futher action.

Even though there is justifiable concern over Nemo's relative, this relative would have to pursue fraud, herself, as she is currently found to be competent. From what the OP posted, the current POA has embezzled. Unless guardianship over the relative is established, Nemo will have to wait until the relative dies and contest all this in probate (abuse of POA). One cannot just hire an attorney to pursue legal action or access financial records on behalf of a competent person without some sort of legal authorization.
 

ellencee

Senior Member
BlondiePB said:
Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree on this one, EC. Though you are correct about APS and the sherrif not being able to declare the OP's relative incompetent, APS can petition the court for guardianship over an alleged incompetent. Then, the alleged incompetent will be seen by an examination committee.

APS can also investigate an alleged incompetent's and/or a vulnerable adult's bank records for embezzelement, financial expoitation of a POA & caretaker, etc. The OP did the right thing in calling APS. The problem here is that APS found nothing wrong and did not pursue any futher action.

Even though there is justifiable concern over Nemo's relative, this relative would have to pursue fraud, herself, as she is currently found to be competent. From what the OP posted, the current POA has embezzled. Unless guardianship over the relative is established, Nemo will have to wait until the relative dies and contest all this in probate (abuse of POA). One cannot just hire an attorney to pursue legal action or access financial records on behalf of a competent person without some sort of legal authorization.
We are going to disagree. The elderly would not benefit from elder law if guardianship first had to be established before a concerned party was allowed to consult with an elder law attorney and if the court could not act without first assigning or assuming guardianship. Thankfully, it does not work that way. The actions of the offending party can be reviewed by an attorney and appropriate remedies can be discussed and pursued.
EC
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
ellencee said:
We are going to disagree. The elderly would not benefit from elder law if guardianship first had to be established before a concerned party was allowed to consult with an elder law attorney and if the court could not act without first assigning or assuming guardianship. Thankfully, it does not work that way. The actions of the offending party can be reviewed by an attorney and appropriate remedies can be discussed and pursued.
EC
I did not say one cannot consult with an elder law attorney. When a elder is competent, no one has the right to meddle in the competent adult's affairs.
 

Nemo7597

Junior Member
....when my family initially contacted APS, the current POA had not transferred my relatives assests yet. Now that all of her assests (property) are now in HIS name only, APS isnt interested. They say they went to see her already, found everything to be in order(may 2004)..... and another visit (now) isnt warranted......
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Nemo7597 said:
....when my family initially contacted APS, the current POA had not transferred my relatives assests yet. Now that all of her assests (property) are now in HIS name only, APS isnt interested. They say they went to see her already, found everything to be in order(may 2004)..... and another visit (now) isnt warranted......
Did you NOT think that contacting APS prior to the transferring of assests was important? :rolleyes:

When posters omit important details, Senior Members tend to lose interest.
 

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