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  1. #1
    bls Guest

    Question

    long story made short as possible! I have a order for Joint legal and physical custody of my son in california. when i moved to florida 4 years ago the father shared the transportation cost with me, in order for my son to come visit just for the summer vacations. I am now moved back to california i live in san diego and my son lives with his father in sacramento ca. Now that transportation will be about 4 or 5 times throughout the year the father says he cant afford to help with transportation cost anymore. what can i do, i have a mediation apointment on dec 6, which i will need to drive 10 hrs to sacramento , but if the father will not agree in mediation to share the cost, what can i do? I do pay child support to dad, i share all medical cost including dental, i pay for any sports my son plays, so i am helping to raise my son to, it just doesnt seem fare to my son, that now that he has a chance to visit more often, dad wont help to make it happen, and i cant pay transportation cost alone. please help with any advise! thank you for reading my post......brenda
  2. #2
    MySonsMom is offline Senior Member
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    Who moved away first? Did you move away from the child, or did the Father and child move away from you? (In the very beginning)
  3. #3
    bls Guest
    i moved away first.....after i go through mediation and dad still does not agree to share the cost, through the eyes of the court should i have to pay for all transportation cost?
  4. #4
    bls Guest
    actully now that i think back...the father moved away first....we both lived in grass valley CA then dad moved to sacramento....does who moved away first mean something?
  5. #5
    Snoopy Guest
    If he refuses to pay then you have no choice but to go to court. Even then chances are he will not be forced to pay. You moved to FL and now moved back to CA but did not move closer to the child. Chances are you are going to have to pay if you want to see the child.
  6. #6
    I AM ALWAYS LIABLE is offline Senior Member
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    My response:

    The statutes really offer no guidance as to what is contemplated by the language "travel expenses for visitation." One case notes such expense is usually incurred by the noncustodial payor parent and, therefore, the 4062(b)(2) allowance should actually operate as a "negative add-on"; i.e., the noncustodial payor parent who incurs the expense should be entitled to some reduction of the child support otherwise ordered. [Marriage of Fini (1994) 26 Cal.App.4th 1033, 1039, 31 Cal.Rptr.2d 749, 752, fn. 5 (dictum)]

    However, other authority disagrees: Ca Fam 4061 and 4062 authorize only additions to the guideline formula amount; there is no provision in the Code for a deduction or "take off" from the formula amount for 4062 expenses. Consequently, the only permissible adjustment under 4062(b)(2) is an increase in the formula support amount to account for visitation travel expenses incurred by the custodial/payee parent. [Marriage of Gigliotti (1995) 33 Cal.App.4th 518, 529, 39 Cal.Rptr.2d 367, 374--trial court erred in treating noncustodial father's travel expenses to visit with child as deduction from formula support obligation]

    Gigliotti, supra, may be a sound interpretation under the literal language of 4061 and 4062 (which expressly refers to the enumerated expense items as "additional" child support). Even so, the court's conclusion may work an unfairness the Legislature would not have intended.

    At your mediation, you should be urging the more liberal "Fini", supra, interpretation which may find implicit support in a more recent Cal. Supreme Court decision regarding move-aways and travel expenses. There, the Court stated that in approving a custodial parent's move-away, trial courts have broad discretion to minimize the loss of contact with the noncustodial parent by, e.g., allocating transportation expenses to the custodial parent or requiring that parent to provide transportation of the children to the noncustodial parent's home. [Marriage of Burgess (1996) 13 Cal.4th 25, 40, 51 Cal.Rptr.2d 444, 455; see also Marriage of Battenburg (1994) 28 Cal.App.4th 1338, 1342, 33 Cal.Rptr.2d 871, 873--moving parent ordered to pay increased costs of visitation due to the move]

    Good luck.

    IAAL
  7. #7
    bls Guest
    does it help my chances, being that the father moved away first in the very beginning? and that when he did move away we shared to cost of transportation by i would pick my son up from dads house then dad would pick him up from my house which was about an hour commute between homes. being the legal dummy Iam, should i ask for decreased or stopped support in the months that my child would need to fly down to visit?or should i ask that the father help pay half of the roundtrip tickets or atleast a third of the roundtrip tickets? also i am not working do to pregnacy and my husband now is covering my child support which was agreed between my ex husband and i in mediation for 50 dollars a month,which i know is very low, but all that we can afford, the first divorce agreement was that no child support be neccesary from one party to the other. anyways before i babble on any longer...thanks for reading my post ..brenda
  8. #8
    Snoopy Guest
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bls [/i]
    [B]does it help my chances, being that the father moved away first in the very beginning? and that when he did move away we shared to cost of transportation by i would pick my son up from dads house then dad would pick him up from my house which was about an hour commute between homes. being the legal dummy Iam, should i ask for decreased or stopped support in the months that my child would need to fly down to visit?or should i ask that the father help pay half of the roundtrip tickets or atleast a third of the roundtrip tickets? also i am not working do to pregnacy and my husband now is covering my child support which was agreed between my ex husband and i in mediation for 50 dollars a month,which i know is very low, but all that we can afford, the first divorce agreement was that no child support be neccesary from one party to the other. anyways before i babble on any longer...thanks for reading my post ..brenda [/B][/QUOTE]

    So despite knowing about your support obligations and travel costs, you continue on and decide to have another baby ? I suggest you start paying the correct amount to your child and eat the travel costs. If he refuses to pay anything then you have no choice but to go to court.
  9. #9
    bls Guest
    thank you for your helpful advise everyone, I just want to add my full story of struggle with my ex- husband. My son was 3 going on 4 when we divorced,I asked my exhusband if I may take my son with me after i got remarried and moved to florida with my now navy husband, i said visits would be through the holidays and all of summer for him and that we would help pay half of all the cost- he replied No and said he would fight me in court to make sure my son couldnt move with me- i thought hard for sometime about my situation and decided that if the father would be just as fare with me than i could trust to let my son stay with father. Well boy have I been paying for that decision made almost 4 years ago. I have had to take him to court for every visit Ive wanted with my son to this day, i hardly ever get to talk to my son on the phone, they tell my they are always busy and hardly ever home, are divorce papers say that i have a right to share in making decisions in all medical and dental and psychological care and schooling, well i guess that the father feels since i was living nearby, that he could make all these decisions without even notifing me what he was doing,sooooo my son was placed on ritilin drug without me knowing, i found out through a phone conversation- i was shocked that he was fine and then just only 3 months after i moved away he was placed on ritilin and as if that wasnt shock enough for me , i found out they put him on the drug without even testing or evaluation done to see if he was this adhd....after i found out ever since that day i have not trusted his father to allow me to still be a mother to my son and have a say in his life, I HAVE FOUGHT IN COURT FOR MY SON for the past 4 years, but the courts wont change things unless the father is a beater or druggy or something horrible like that,,and the father never returns my calls, he doesnt even call me when my son gets hurt, like when he broke his arm falling from the monkey bars at school , i didnt even hear from the father , i heard through my son one day when dad decided to answer the phone....these arethe unfare things i have had to tend with since i moved away and then some......I just want my son to either come live with me or for dad to grow up and stop using my son to get back at me for divorcing him....I totally trusted dad in the beginning which i regret to this day**************.I love my son and have been the grown up and avoided all dads rude remarks and power trips and always avoided fighting, stupid me thought it would be best for my son if i did, but im tired and just want things to be eaisy for my son to stay in touch with me atleast**************I am tired of going to court to have the judge say yes you can see your son for the holidays and anytime possible. dad could avoid all this court stuff if he was thinking about our son instead of being spiteful to me. I always paid half of everything for my son, I just wish the dad would continue to pay half of visitation cost especially now that we are closer and the cost of an hour flight is cheaper than it has been to the east coast.... thats my story and then some, thanks for reading my post, i do not want or expect to get simpithy i just want understanding and SOME GOOD HELPFULL ADVISE !!!!!! ps my ex also has a 10 month old girl now from his remarrieg and me having another baby 4 years later shouldnt make me a bad guy and have to fully cover my son financilly while he is living with dad ....thanks for reading my story.....respectfully brenda
  10. #10
    Snoopy Guest
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bls [/i]
    [B]thank you for your helpful advise everyone, I just want to add my full story of struggle with my ex- husband. My son was 3 going on 4 when we divorced,I asked my exhusband if I may take my son with me after i got remarried and moved to florida with my now navy husband, i said visits would be through the holidays and all of summer for him and that we would help pay half of all the cost- he replied No and said he would fight me in court to make sure my son couldnt move with me- i thought hard for sometime about my situation and decided that if the father would be just as fare with me than i could trust to let my son stay with father. [/B][/QUOTE]

    So you put your new husband above your own child. I see this a lot on this board and can not believe how any parent can do this. You rather had moved to FL than stay with your child, you actually gave up your child voluntarily. Sad, so sad.
  11. #11
    billyjean Guest

    Wink

    Snoopy, that doesn't sound very fair. Interpretation is 9/10's of perception I suppose. I didn't feel she put new hubby first. Just my opinion! and I know everyone has one. LOL
  12. #12
    LegalBeagle is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by billyjean [/i]
    [B]Snoopy, that doesn't sound very fair. Interpretation is 9/10's of perception I suppose. I didn't feel she put new hubby first. Just my opinion! and I know everyone has one. LOL [/B][/QUOTE]

    Whilst I do not agree with Snoopy's overall tone, as I read it, she moved to FL with here new husband and the child remained in CA ?? As a parent myself, you will never be able to convince me that in the situation above, she put her child before her new husband..

  13. #13
    billyjean Guest
    Hi LB, although I don't feel she put her hubby first, there is the argument that she didn't put her child first either. My husband and I had to go to California 2 years ago because his employment required it. We had to leave my stepdaughter behind although we did not want to...long story....we had no alternative. My husband could not give up his job and continue to pay the legal fees we had racked up due to his ex, and keep a roof over our heads, and keep food on the table. I did return two months later settling into the same town where his ex lived. This put the pressure on for her not to abuse the child. (she still abused her) At first however, we did not think this would be possible. My husband managed to convince his employer he could do a better job on the east coast. (He travels most of the year)
    It is hard on all parents that have to make decisions like this. Our story ended well, my stepdaughter is with us, I hope this ladies ends just as well, with the child safe and happy. It is always nice to hear someone else's perspective, it puts your mind to work. Thanks
  14. #14
    bls Guest
    hello , reading your comments helps me think about my situation in a different light. Yes I did not put my child first and Yes I did not put my new husband first... 4 years ago, when my exhusband convinced me that i would not win in court for my son to come with me when i moved, my whole thinking back then was exactly....no fighting..no battle.. no long dragged on court fees would be best for my son, and unfortuneltly i trusted my exhusband to be fare with sharing our sons life, just as i would have if my son did come to move with me. that decision to trust my ex has haunted me since, and my life is not easy , i feel always as though theres an empty space in my life that i just can not complete until my son comes to live with me, I did not just turn my son over to my ex, I was stupid and nieve back then to think all would be okay for my son, and very extremley nieve to believed my ex back then. Every since my son has showed signs of not being okay , I have tried to change things around and the courts just wont do it and my ex wont atleast give our son a chance to see if he would do better with me...my son has been having problems just after i moved away ..like fighting and not listening in school, he misses me alot and the father just wont think about our son , i feel hes only thinking about himself. my son does fine when he visits for the summers, he doesnt need that drug ritilin, i feel thats just dads way of better parenting through chemistry...if dad would just look back and remember our son when i was in ca. verses just after i moved..he would see what i see and that is that our son is just upset about my move away and hes acting out his anger at school and at home with his dad.....but dad doesnt want to hear or take anything i have to say into consideration....anyways i cant go back and change the decision i made back then...allow i wish i could, because after being to court for stupid things ....like fighting to have my son spend some time with me over holidays, ive come to feel strongly that if i had just gone to court back then 4 years ago, i most likely would have won in court and my son would not be feeling the way he does now. I would not have done nor would i do now what my ex has been doing to my sons and I relationship, I just wouldnt. well again thank you for your comments on my situation.....i hope your all doing well in your lifes struggles.....brenda ps ... i still could use some helpful ideas on how i should ask dad to help with transportation, heres some of the ideas i could come up with...50/50 shared transportation which dad already wont agree to thats why i set a mediation apt this coming dec.12, or ive asked him if he could help pay atleast a third of the cost of our sons airline ticket, which he agreed to but stated only when he could afford it, which is not a concrete enough answer , i feel we need to know for sure so that we can plan, or another idea i had was for the months that my son would be flying down to visit which is only 4 to 5 times a year ,is not pay child support for just those months to help us to afford the full cost of a roundtrip ticket. These are all that i could think of , if you have any advise as to these ideas please tell me, i know the future can not be predicted but atleast i have your thoughts to consider when i ask for one of these from my ex. your ideas and comments mean alot to me , for only the rich can afford to pay for an attorneys fees! thank you ......brenda

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