Can former employer refuse to sign over 401k distribution, fully vested

[Paula Coe]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

 

[FlyingRon]

What do you mean "sign over?"

Do you mean rollover? Or are you trying to withdraw prematurely from the plan?

 

[justalayman]

Are you certain this is a 401k?

A 401k is not the employers money. It is your money but there are restrictions on you withdrawing it. 401k's do not become "vested" as they are 100% your money the minute it is deposited into your account. The employer does not control the account.

 

[tranquility]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

Look to your 401K rules. Many such things are specific to the particular plan.

 

[FlyingRon]

Are you certain this is a 401k?

A 401k is not the employers money. It is your money but there are restrictions on you withdrawing it. 401k's do not become "vested" as they are 100% your money the minute it is deposited into your account. The employer does not control the account.

That's not true. Your moeny is always your money. If there is an employer match may indeed vest over time as the plan goes. Technically the "plan" (which isn't typically the employer but some financial entity) controls the account.

If he's left the job and wants to roll it over, the plan must do so for his contributions and any vested employer match.
If he's trying to just outright withdraw funds early, the plan doesn't have to allow that.

 

[Paula Coe]

What do you mean "sign over?"

Do you mean rollover? Or are you trying to withdraw prematurely from the plan?

The employer has to sign withdrawal papers to release funds. They have refused to do so.

 

[justalayman]

That's not true. Your moeny is always your money. If there is an employer match may indeed vest over time as the plan goes. Technically the "plan" (which isn't typically the employer but some financial entity) controls the account.

If he's left the job and wants to roll it over, the plan must do so for his contributions and any vested employer match.
If he's trying to just outright withdraw funds early, the plan doesn't have to allow that.

his money is always his money. If the employer has contributed money, it is the employees money. Money that requires a vesting period is not the employees money because it has not been "given" to the employee yet but given conditionally. That would make it ineligible for withdrawal since it is not the employees money. The employee would still have control of their money but also notice the op stated any vesting period has passed so it is in fact his money.

I can't say I have ever seen a 401k that one could not withdraw their money. I cannot find anythng on the subject where it would or could be constructed as such. Care to share something that would help educate me on the subject?

 

[FlyingRon]

If the employer has contributed money, it is the employees money

Sorry, the term "employer contribution" can include amounts that are subject to vesting.

I can't say I have ever seen a 401k that one could not withdraw their money. I cannot find anythng on the subject where it would or could be constructed as such. Care to share something that would help educate me on the subject?

Simple, your plan does not have to provide for withdrawals prior to retirement age (or certain other event). They may provide for hardship withdrawals (subject to the penalty), but they don't have to. Again, all this would be in the plan documents.

 

[LdiJ]

Sorry, the term "employer contribution" can include amounts that are subject to vesting.



Simple, your plan does not have to provide for withdrawals prior to retirement age (or certain other event). They may provide for hardship withdrawals (subject to the penalty), but they don't have to. Again, all this would be in the plan documents.

I believe that they do have to allow rollovers though.

 

[cbg]

Paula: This is extremely important.

Yes or no. Are you still employed by the employer who is the sponsor of the 401(k) plan?

 

[Paula Coe]

Paula: This is extremely important.

Yes or no. Are you still employed by the employer who is the sponsor of the 401(k) plan?

I am no longer employed there.

 

[FlyingRon]

I believe that they do have to allow rollovers though.

Yes, I said that in one of my earlier posts. If she no longer works for the company, she can roll it over to an IRA or possibly her new employer's plan.

This is why in my first post I asked her to explain whether she was talking about rolling it over to another plan or trying to withdraw the funds.

 

[Paula Coe]

Yes, I said that in one of my earlier posts. If she no longer works for the company, she can roll it over to an IRA or possibly her new employer's plan.

This is why in my first post I asked her to explain whether she was talking about rolling it over to another plan or trying to withdraw the funds.

I am no longer working there. So if I roll it into an IRA then I can withdraw it? I am unemployed and need the money.

 

[LdiJ]

I am no longer working there. So if I roll it into an IRA then I can withdraw it? I am unemployed and need the money.

Yes, if you roll it over into an IRA you would be able to withdraw money from the IRA. However, make sure that the rollover is a trustee to trustee rollover (the money does not go through your hands). Then, only withdraw what you absolutely need.

 

[Paula Coe]

Yes, if you roll it over into an IRA you would be able to withdraw money from the IRA. However, make sure that the rollover is a trustee to trustee rollover (the money does not go through your hands). Then, only withdraw what you absolutely need.

Thank you for your help