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Redrooster

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Maryland

Hello. I took out a loan on my 401k plan back in March of 2012 for $40,000. The loan repayment agreement was to have $333.57 payroll deducted for 60 months. The loan repayments were to have begun no later than May 14, 2012. That did not happen. I was notified by the loan administrator that repayment had not begun and that the loan was going to go into default. I repeatedly notified my payroll department that the payroll deduction had not taken place and that the loan was about to go into default. They assured me that this would be taken care of and not to worry about it. The deduction from my pay did not happen until Sept. 2012. Then in March of 2013, the deductions stopped. I was contacted by my payroll department that they wanted to provide me some assistance with the tax and penalty obligation since they realize that this loan went into default because they were not timely in starting the deduction. They are offering an amount of $15,000+ for the estimated taxes and penalties. This all caught me by surprise. I contacted the 401k administrator who confirmed they had not received any payment towards this loan. When I questioned my employer, they asked me whether or not I had received a check for the monies that had been deducted. I informed them that I had not. When I asked where the money had been going, they could not tell me. I am supposed to have a conference call with them on Fri. 4/5 to discuss the plan for resolving this matter. My intent was not for this loan to go into default. My intent was for this money to be re-payed back into my retirement fund. When I stated this to them, they stated that they had gone through a transitional period within the payroll department and the person responsible for handling this had left the position. That still doesn't explain where my payroll deduction was going and why I wasn't notified until now that the loan was in default. Later I found out that apparently the loan went into default back in Aug 2012. What should I do? How should I proceed? How do I get this resolved?
 
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tranquility

Senior Member
I'd start with reviewing your dates and numbers. Nothing about what you've written makes the least amount of sense.
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
So you are saying there was a period when nothing was deducted from your check and it should have been, and then there was a period where it was being taken out of your check but not applied to your loan balance?

That they couldn't tell you where the money went is total BS and you should not accept that for an answer. If they have no records that it was ever sent to anybody, then it's sitting in a liability account somewhere. Go as far up the chain as you need to find out what happened to your money that was taken out of your check.

Did you receive a 1099 for the defaulted loan to include with your 2012 taxes? You should have if it defaulted in August.
 

Redrooster

Junior Member
Exactly

Exactly. Between March 2012 (when the loan was issued) and Sept 2012, no money was deducted. In Sept 2012 the deductions started then end in March but were never applied to the loan. The loan apparently went into default in Aug 2012. I never received a 1099.
So you are saying there was a period when nothing was deducted from your check and it should have been, and then there was a period where it was being taken out of your check but not applied to your loan balance?

That they couldn't tell you where the money went is total BS and you should not accept that for an answer. If they have no records that it was ever sent to anybody, then it's sitting in a liability account somewhere. Go as far up the chain as you need to find out what happened to your money that was taken out of your check.

Did you receive a 1099 for the defaulted loan to include with your 2012 taxes? You should have if it defaulted in August.
 

Redrooster

Junior Member
Let me clarify

Loan start date = March 30, 2012. First payment was due by May 12, 2012. First repayment wasn't deducted from my pay until Sept. 2012. From Sept 2012 until March 2013, they were deducting payments from my pay. The money was never applied to the loan which apparently defaulted Aug 2012.
I'd start with reviewing your dates and numbers. Nothing about what you've written makes the least amount of sense.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
How could you NOT notice that over $300 wasn't being deducted from your pay periodically? :confused:
 

Redrooster

Junior Member
I did notice it. I put a call into payroll. They then called me back with the entire spill about wanting to help me with the back taxes and penalties, etc....etc.
How could you NOT notice that over $300 wasn't being deducted from your pay periodically? :confused:
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
There are two possible reasons why the deductions from your check were not applied to your loan.

#1. Your employer did not send them.

#2. Your employer did send them, but the 401k provider would not apply them to your loan balance because the loan was in default. You said the loan defaulted in Aug12 and the first pay check deduction was Sep12. This would mean the loan was in default by the time the pay check deduction started so my guess is that the 401k provider refused to apply payments on a defaulted loan.

You really need to determine which of the above happened before you can proceed.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Prior to the loan defaulting, how did you not know that the money wasn't being deducted?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
These loans don't just magically appear from the ether. The OP had a loan document and KNEW what money was supposed to be withheld. OP has some responsibility in this too.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
The loan repayment agreement was to have $333.57 payroll deducted for 60 months.
$333.57 x 60 = $20014.20 it does not equal $40,000.
I took out a loan on my 401k plan back in March of 2012 for $40,000.
What does this mean? You mean you took a loan from your 401K plan? Doesn't the full amount have to be repaid within 5 years?

What were the loan's rules for default? Not just the date, the rules.

Obviously, it is a little light for what your probable marginal rate is for $15K to compensate you for taxes and interest. That might just cover the feds, but what of Maryland? Of course, that is just compensation to put you almost back, you would prefer the money to be in a 401K, right? It's very hard to calculate the value of that.
 

Redrooster

Junior Member
Sorry...that amount is bi-weekly. Default: I agree I will be in default on my loan and the whole sum of the principal and accrued but unpaid interest will become immediately due and payable in full without regard to the maturity date specified or to whether I am entitled to receive payment of my account balance if: 1. I do not make any payment on time (or within any grace periods allowed under the Loan Policy): 2. I made any statement or representation to you in connection with this loan which is false or incomplete in any material respect; or 3. I don't comply with all of the terms of this note and other loan documentation. Yes, I would prefer to have the money back in the 401k plan; not in hand.
$333.57 x 60 = $20014.20 it does not equal $40,000.
What does this mean? You mean you took a loan from your 401K plan? Doesn't the full amount have to be repaid within 5 years?

What were the loan's rules for default? Not just the date, the rules.

Obviously, it is a little light for what your probable marginal rate is for $15K to compensate you for taxes and interest. That might just cover the feds, but what of Maryland? Of course, that is just compensation to put you almost back, you would prefer the money to be in a 401K, right? It's very hard to calculate the value of that.
 

Redrooster

Junior Member
The money wasn't coming out of my check. I kept calling and they told me don't worry about it and they would take care of it. Then I got a letter stating the loan was going into default. I contacted them again and they said the deduction would come out the next period. They correspondence was 8/29/2013. The deduction started 9/7/2012.
Prior to the loan defaulting, how did you not know that the money wasn't being deducted?
 

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