Ignorantly and unintentionally committed unemployment insurance fraud

[Dumbdumb]

I live in Utah. I was placed on company convenience leave for six weeks between May and July of last year (2012) and I filed for unemployment insurance. My company allowed us to continue our health benefits and let us use our paid time off (PTO) balance to pay for the benefit.

Long story made short. I didn't realize that I had to declare the PTO I used for paying for my health benefits as income. This happened for three weeks during my company convenience leave period and I just found about about it a couple weeks ago when I was put back on company convenience leave.

I recently, as of mid-March 2013, was put back on company convenience leave. When I applied for unemployment insurance I received a letter stating that I had committed fraud with a short list of the violations and possible penalties. Had I known about these violations last year, I would have made restitution in a very timely manner. However, I just found out aboit the issue after I applied for unemployment benefits this time around and am just worried that I won't be able to collect unemployment due to my ignorance.

I fully intend to make restitution as soon as possible. I called to speak to the adjudicator once I found out about the problem on Friday, but all I could do was leave a message asking her to call me back so that we could resolve this issue.

Does anybody know what the outcome or possible outcomes will be? I don't want to be labeled a criminal. I just want to fix the problem and receive the financial assistance I need.

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[quincy]

Thank you, Dumbdumb, for starting your own thread.

An employment law expert should be by shortly to read your post, address your concerns, and answer your questions.

 

[cbg]

The UI office is far more interested in collecting overpayments than they are in taking legal action. If you indicate your willingness to repay, and do so consistently, this should resolve itself fairly easily.

 

[Dumbdumb]

Overpayment

The UI office is far more interested in collecting overpayments than they are in taking legal action. If you indicate your willingness to repay, and do so consistently, this should resolve itself fairly easily.

I did the math and the overpayment to me was $378.60. Do you have a rough estimate how much the penalty costs will be and whether this issue will affect whether or I can qualify for unemployment now that my company has put me on company convenience leave again?

 

[cbg]

For that kind of detail wait for Commentator.

 

[swalsh411]

I haven't had to collect unemployment since 2010 (thank goodness) but if I recall the question was "have you performed any work during this period for which you will be paid" or something along those lines. I'm sure the exact wording varies by State, but if that is what they are asking them I'm not surprised that somebody who was being paid vacation leave in order to cover health benefits might honestly answer "no".

 

[Dumbdumb]

The exact trap I fell into...

I haven't had to collect unemployment since 2010 (thank goodness) but if I recall the question was "have you performed any work during this period for which you will be paid" or something along those lines. I'm sure the exact wording varies by State, but if that is what they are asking them I'm not surprised that somebody who was being paid vacation leave in order to cover health benefits might honestly answer "no".

The example you stated is basically what I fell prey to. In hindsight, I felt really dumb after reading over everything several times over to find out what I did wrong. When I speak to the adjudicator on Monday, I hope that a little mercy and understanding will prevail. I honestly had no intentions to ripoff unemployment insurance and would like to make restitution as soon as possible. I just don't like not knowing what's going to happen in advance.

 

[swalsh411]

This may not even be an overpayment because they might not realize it was accrued leave. It's fundamentally unfair if it is though because another employee, terminated at the same time, could have chosen to received his accrued vacation in one lump sum and this would not prevent him from collecting full benefits in the coming weeks while looking for a new job. You are essentially being penalized because your leave is being paid out to you over an extended period.

 

[Dumbdumb]

This is getting confusing

This may not even be an overpayment because they might not realize it was accrued leave. It's fundamentally unfair if it is though because another employee, terminated at the same time, could have chosen to received his accrued vacation in one lump sum and this would not prevent him from collecting full benefits in the coming weeks while looking for a new job. You are essentially being penalized because your leave is being paid out to you over an extended period.

I hope that your assumption is actually the case. This would make things a lot more easy for me.

The first question to qualify for weekly unemployment benefits is:

(a) “During the week, did you work or attend paid training?”

I answered "no" because I didn't. However if I answered "yes" the following question would be:

(b) “How much did you earn before deductions?” (Your gross earnings disregarding any cents). For example, if you earned $116.80, you would enter “116”.) Depending on the amount of earnings you report, you may be asked some additional questions not listed here.

Since the company takes 8.21 hours of PTO to pay for my health benefits per week, it shows up on my paycheck stub as gross income.

But I have to answer "yes" to question (a), which would not be true. Now I am getting even more confused.

 

[commentator]

What you will need to do is discuss this overpayment with someone in the system. You'll need to contact your person who signed the letter as soon as you can on Monday. I suggest you do this by phone and try very hard to talk to a living breathing human being. Hold the telephone as long as you have to, keep making the calls repeatedly. In the meantime, be sure you certify for your weeks of unemployment you've signed up for now as they pass on this new claim, just as you have been instructed to do.

What they may do is not charge you any penalties. It's something for you to hope for. Whatever overpayment they settle on, they would just take the first weeks of unemployment benefits that you are signed up for and fully eligibile to receive now to cover the overpayment amount. You'll sign up for all the weeks, and certify for them just as if you were drawing them, but they'll be kept by the system as payment of your overpayment. That's of course, providing that when you talk to them in greatest detail, it still is the case that you are determined to have an overpayment. It sounds as though this is first contact concerning the overpayment you're aware of. Have you by any chance moved or changed your address since that old claim was filed and received?

My best bet is yep, you'll have one. PTO is called "Paid time off" and it does have to be reported for the week it is paid out for. There is usually another question somewhere on the certifications for weeks that covers vacation pay, etc for the referenced week. That is the one where you report any paid time off pay you received for this week, though you did not work, and you will legitimately answer the first question (Did you work?.....) as no.