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  1. #1
    CAEDDVictim is offline Junior Member
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    Judgement Obtained by the EDD without Notice to Appear

    California

    I'm a resident in the state of California. I had an overpayment from a previous year that has been subsequently paid off via unemployment deduction. I now have an outstanding balance of penalties an interest that equal nearly $1000. I have receive notices of judgement from the Superior Court, however, I was never delivered a notice to appear to have the opportunity to defend myself. How is this possible? Why am I not allowed due process?

    Another issue is that I am unable to negotiate the fees to be lowered. Even the IRS works with you. How does the EDD have this much power and why is it impossible to fight them?
  2. #2
    swalsh411 is offline Senior Member
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    Why do you believe you should not have to pay those penalties and fees?

    Have you contacted the court to ask how you were served?
  3. #3
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    It is unusual for the EDD to be totally unreasonable on negotiating with people who owe back-pay and penalties, IN THE BEGINNING. The fact that you have penalties in the first place would indicate that you were very slow in responding to them way back after the first overpayment notices were sent to you.

    California, like many other states, has become much more aggressive about re-capturing monies paid out by the unemployment system especially when there is an element of fraud involved. In other words, you didn't just lose your hearing and get overpaid the money you had already drawn before the decision, you actually lied to the unemployment system about whether you were working, how much you were making, something that involved actually lying on their forms. They'll come after those cases with great aggressiveness.

    It is also quite difficult for a person to go to court against the unemployment system and argue that he does NOT owe this money or that he did NOT knowingly commit this fraud. The way the unemployment system works, they will have large amounts of documentation they can easily produce that shows the deceit involved, how the person falsified this particular weekly certification document here, while he was also, according to payroll records, actually working there...(they have the payroll records for every covered employer in the state) so don't be too injured that you got this judgment against you without being there. There probably was very little you could have done. The greatest lawyer in the world can't help you if they've got you nailed down with ironclad proof and they can show you did it and that you have been slow to repay it.

    And the EDD usually does the negotiation, the working out of payment systems with the individual way before they take it to court. The judge in civil court will not try to get involved and negotiate for the defendant, or allow an attorney to. By that time, it's just a pay up thing. Which is what causes me to believe you may have ignored their first overtures concerning your overpayment a long while ago. The EDD will work with overpaid claimants, but it is on an individualized basis. If your case is genuine fraud, and you haven't been cooperative before, then don't be suprised if they are not very sympathetic. Their "power" is that they have very firmly fixed federally sanctioned processes that they follow for every claimant, it is not open to discussion how they deal with this and that, there's a regulation for almost everything they do.
    Last edited by commentator; 03-15-2011 at 08:50 AM.
  4. #4
    CAEDDVictim is offline Junior Member
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    Ok. Look. I've already paid back my overpayment, so before you start making judgements, read my post....I HAVE PAID BACK THE OVERPAYMENT...

    I REPEAT I HAVE PAID BACK THE OVERPAYMENT!!!

    The outstanding monies is for PENALTIES and INTEREST ONLY!! Now, I owe $1000 in PENALITIES & INTEREST ONLY on a $2500 debt that would be only 2.5 years old had I not paid it off in January of 2010, however, I did repay the outstanding over payment. There just seems to be something really wrong with that to begin with...if y'all agree with it, bully for you. I don't. I believe the State of California should adhere to the standards set forth by the Fair Debt Collection Act but they don't and there's something wrong with that.

    I also owed monies to the IRS. Being that my employment has been splotchy as the unemployment rate in California is still 12% the IRS has been kind and has worked with me. Why doesn't the state of California?

    I believe that owing 1/3 of the debt in interest in penalties is excessive. If the IRS is will to negotiate and even reduce the amount of interest and penalties due, so should the state of California.

    Neither of these posts were helpful. I want to know how the EDD has the right to obtain a judgement without serving a person. Neither of you explained this to me. Instead you, yourself placed judgement.

    Again, my post asks HOW IS IT LEGAL THAT THE EDD WAS ABLE TO OBTAIN A JUDGEMENT FOR OUTSTANDING PENALTIES AND INTEREST ONLY WITHOUT SERVING ME AND ALLOWING TO REPRESENT MYSELF IN FRONT OF A JUDGE????

    Again, if you're going to play Jesus (as most people in this country believe they can) and tell me how wrong I was for committing fraud (which as a PS you have no idea if FRAUD actually occurred so the assumption of FRAUD is asinine) just keep your responses to yourself. This isn't about me having to pay my overpayment back. It's done. It's about the EDD acting like legal mafiosos and somehow skirting due process.

    As a side note, there is no phone number on the judgement. I would have to go to Sacramento and actually speak with someone.

    Thanks and have a FABULOUS day...
  5. #5
    CAEDDVictim is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by commentator View Post
    It is unusual for the EDD to be totally unreasonable on negotiating with people who owe back-pay and penalties...
    Also, you're WRONG about this...the EDD IS COMPLETELY unreasonable PERIOD. Have you NOT read other posts in other forums about how they mistreat people who are just trying to pay their bills and live their life?? Have you not heard about how the California EDD was trying to get out of paying people their extensions?? It's not the unemployed's fault that the economy fell. Why should we suffer? We pay enough into a ****TY system. Where DID all our paid tax dollars go in the State of California. Standing up for the EDD makes you look like an idiot in the light of everything they have done to the people in this state.

    Are you from California or are you just once gain placing judgement after not ever having dealt with the California Employment Development Department. They are not the franchise tax board. The franchise tax board is nicer...
  6. #6
    swalsh411 is offline Senior Member
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    The purpose of penalties and interest is two-fold. First, to discourage others from attempting to receive benefits they are not entitled to. Second, to recover some of the costs associated with collecting the overpayment. 1/3 of the overpayment amount does not seem at all unreasonable to me. You may feel otherwise, but neither of our opinions really matters much here.

    Even if you were not properly served, and were able to get the case dismissed, they could just file again. If you legitimately owe the debt, the only way to get out of it is to either negotitate with who you owe money to or pay the debt.

    It is possible that sometimes a Court will consider the defendent served even if they did not actually receive the papers. You need to contact the court (they have a phone number published somewhere) to find out how you were served if you want to go that route.
  7. #7
    CAEDDVictim is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by swalsh411 View Post
    The purpose of penalties and interest is two-fold. First, to discourage others from attempting to receive benefits they are not entitled to. Second, to recover some of the costs associated with collecting the overpayment. 1/3 of the overpayment amount does not seem at all unreasonable to me. You may feel otherwise, but neither of our opinions really matters much here.

    Even if you were not properly served, and were able to get the case dismissed, they could just file again. If you legitimately owe the debt, the only way to get out of it is to either negotitate with who you owe money to or pay the debt.

    It is possible that sometimes a Court will consider the defendent served even if they did not actually receive the papers. You need to contact the court (they have a phone number published somewhere) to find out how you were served if you want to go that route.
    I'm not trying to get the case dismissed. I just think that have 1/3 of the total amount that was due as a penalities is incredibly unreasonable. If it were a couple of hundred dollars, that would be fine but it's 1/3 and that IS unreasonable.

    The IRS doesn't even ask for that much. As a matter of fact, they waived any interest and penalties I owed without me requesting it. I think I even insisted stating I made the mistake on my return, I should pay it. They said the debt was paid back and that's all that matters... I agree and it makes me want to pay taxes. Ironic, no?

    Thank you for sticking to the facts. That's really what is important at this point for me.
  8. #8
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAEDDVictim View Post
    I'm not trying to get the case dismissed. I just think that have 1/3 of the total amount that was due as a penalities is incredibly unreasonable. If it were a couple of hundred dollars, that would be fine but it's 1/3 and that IS unreasonable.



    Thank you for sticking to the facts. That's really what is important at this point for me.

    Okay, fact is, you THINK this is unreasonable, you FEEL you were treated wrongly, you want to decide what you think is a reasonable amount to owe in fines , yet just the facts is what's important to you.

    My opinion is based on work experience in fraud collection for unemployment, though not with the state of CA in particular, but the unemployment system, in any state is quite different from the IRS.

    For one thing, the overpayment system is governed by the state and federal unemployment statues, it is not solely a federal program. Most aspects of it are very cut and dried. Unlike with the IRS, there is this issue that with unemployment, one can become overpaid without actual wrongdoing, or one can become overpaid due to fraud. Two difference circumstances. Much more lenience is given in actual unemployment overpayment law to those who are overpaid due to circumstances. But even if you were overpaid through no fault whatsoever of your own, they have the right to charge you penalties and interest, and while there is a waiver/appeal process, the fact that you have paid off your overpayment does not excuse you, any more than paying the principal on your house payment excuses you from paying off the interest. You received an interest free loan from the state of CA, and now they want the money back, which they have gotten, with some interest and penalties which they have the right to ask for. Due to some reason or another they have not negotiated and they have pursued you aggressively to repay them. They have not pressed criminal charges against you. But they do want their interest and penalties paid.

    And the EDD is not significantly unfair to all of the people of your fair state. That's your opinion. I can stand up for the program because I have worked in the system and I understand how it works, I don't get my information and opinons from reading forums, and talking to others who don't know anything about it about it, and I have heard literally hundreds of whiney overpaid jerks defend themselves after the fact of their having been caught and made to pay back overpayments (and penalties) by saying that the whole system is unfair. Because you paid it back (though another unemployment claim, it appears) that doesn't mean it wasn't a fraud based overpayment in the first place.

    They didn't pull an amount to charge you in penalties and fines out of the air, as swalsh points out, there is a purpose for these penalties and they are set and regulated by CA unemployment law, not what you think would be fair and reasonable.

    Even if you went to court, even if you get the case dropped this time because you weren't served properly, (which I believe you will find is not the case) and they take you back again, which I bet they will, you are still not going to have a legal argument that the penalties and fines are excessive. And because there is no phone number on the judgment, you would have to go to Sacramento and talk to someone? Huh? You can't look at the state website for a number?
    Last edited by commentator; 03-16-2011 at 11:30 AM.
  9. #9
    Butterfly43 is offline Junior Member
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    Regarding Judgement Obtained by the EDD without Notice to Appear

    Hey there, I am in the same boat as the original poster of this thread. I would like to know if he ever found a resolution to his issue. I just contacted the EDD and they made it more than clear, they do not negotiate settlements and they do not waive interest, late fees, and penalties period. EDD did file a judgment against me as well, without any notice to me to appear or to appeal and they received their judgment. I have been a collections agent myself for many years and I am fully aware of the fair debt collection practices and they are certainly not following them as far as I can tell. I like the original poster of this thread, finally does have the ability, quite a few years later, to pay Unemployment their overpayment now, but I do not feel like I should have to pay their penalties and I am searching for a way to do that successfully. If anyone has been able to just pay their overpayment only without the penalties in the state of California, please let me know, how you accomplished this. This is what I want to do, but EDD said NO! Is there any type of lawyer or any type of specific law that can assist me, with getting the EDD to waive the penalties on my overpayment, so I can just pay them what I actually owed, which was the initial overpayment, and so that I can move on with my life.
  10. #10
    Proserpina is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly43 View Post
    Hey there, I am in the same boat as the original poster of this thread. I would like to know if he ever found a resolution to his issue. I just contacted the EDD and they made it more than clear, they do not negotiate settlements and they do not waive interest, late fees, and penalties period. EDD did file a judgment against me as well, without any notice to me to appear or to appeal and they received their judgment. I have been a collections agent myself for many years and I am fully aware of the fair debt collection practices and they are certainly not following them as far as I can tell. I like the original poster of this thread, finally does have the ability, quite a few years later, to pay Unemployment their overpayment now, but I do not feel like I should have to pay their penalties and I am searching for a way to do that successfully. If anyone has been able to just pay their overpayment only without the penalties in the state of California, please let me know, how you accomplished this. This is what I want to do, but EDD said NO! Is there any type of lawyer or any type of specific law that can assist me, with getting the EDD to waive the penalties on my overpayment, so I can just pay them what I actually owed, which was the initial overpayment, and so that I can move on with my life.

    Please start your own thread.

    Thanks!
  11. #11
    swalsh411 is offline Senior Member
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    You're not getting out of paying those any more than the other guy.

    And start your own thread please.
  12. #12
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    Why should the state of CA have given you an interest free loan all these years? You were keeping monies that should have been back in the unemployment system, and instead you were waiting until it was comfortable for you to pay it back. Why do you think it should not be entitled to charge you penalties and interest for the money?
    Fairness doesn't count, and there's no place you can sue the unemployment system to try to get them to change their own laws because they are not perceived by you to be fair. You may want to file a complaint with your state representative's or state senator's office. But with CA needing money as badly as they have, I don't see them changing any of their statutes to enable you to pay back only as much as you feel is fair.

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