Unemployment Fraud Accusation

[grrrarg]

We currently live in California but my husband had been collecting unemployment benefit for about a year from Utah because that is where he was laid off.

I'm from the UK, (I'm in the US legally), and while he was on unemployment he came to visit me twice for a total of 5 weeks. The money he used to get there and while he was there was all gifts or my own money (we were engaged at the time).

He continued to claim unemployment benefit because he's a freelance artist and can actually work from home, and most of the jobs he was applying to were all work from home/contract/freelance work.

He didn't miss an interview, he didn't miss a job offer. He has his phone with him to receive calls.

He legitimately didn't know he was in the wrong.

His unemployment ran out in March of this year, and we've been living off of his parents (my legal sponsors) and whatever freelance work he can get.

We have zero.

We were out of town looking for work when the letters came in, he had two weeks to appeal, but we were still out of town, so a decision was made and he was found accountable to about $2,500 of unemployment fraud. It was a shock to us. They wanted the money back and double as a penalty.

Then a few days later we got a letter telling us he was under review for criminal charges regardless of whether we pay back or not.

We phoned and my husband decided to appeal the decision based on the fact that he was ready able and willing to work (he would have flown home, he could work from where he was staying, he was applying for jobs in the UK as well as the USA, etc). The guy he talked to said that they would only press charges if it was a 'substantial' amount.

What's a substantial amount? Seriously.

So, I'm panicking, as you can imagine. We didn't know he did anything wrong by leaving so we weren't expecting anything like this.

Should he even appeal or should he just set up repayments (or a waiver because we're close to bankruptcy)? Is he honestly possibly going to serve jail time for visiting his fiance? The whole thing is sickening.

Any help or advice or guidance on this would be amazing.

 

[Beth3]

Your husband has nothing to lose by appealing, so he certainly should. Whether the State will grant an appeal hearing is doubtful, since he missed the deadline but he may as well try.

In the meantime, he may as well set up a repayment plan or try to obtain a waiver due to financial hardship. As to whether the State will actually pursue criminal charges for UC fraud, I can't even hazard a guess. Good luck.

 

[commentator]

An appeal will slow down a repayment plan, being in active contact with and interacting with the fraud unit will keep them from filing criminal charges against you. It is ignoring their letters that get you in trouble. Since he is appealing, or investigating the possibility of an appeal and/or a waiver of overpayment based on your financial situation, they're not going to blindside him with criminal charges while that's all going on.

That was one heck of a screw up, your being out of town when both letters came, long enough for the time to appeal to pass. I hope you can also defend where you were and that you were job searching on this trip out of town, as well as the trips to the UK.

Because if you respond immediately to fraud investigation letters, that gets the ball rolling on the whole repayment/overpayment situation, and you are much less likely to be prosecuted. Also, that is pretty much what was meant when they said if it was a lot of money, they'd come after it assertively, a small amount, not too hard. Its really more the way you respond than the actual cash amount. And they are more interested in getting their money back (when actual fraud is determined) than in putting people in jail.

While your appeal process is on going, there probably won't be collection process going on. Hopefully this claimant will be able to present some proofs of job searches he made while in the UK, documentation of interviews, plans to relocated. Be sure that when he sets up the agreement to pay back overpayments, that he is very conservative in offering what he will actually be able to repay, over a long period for a small monthly amount, instead of promising them $300 a week and then having to default quickly on paying that much.

If you really are financially unable to come up with the money, a waiver can be requested if it has not been too late. But first, you've got to get a hold on whether or not you actually owe the money, whether it's going to be determined as a fraud overpayment, whether it is too late for you to appeal it and could possibly claim you were doing the job hunt in the UK.

What very likely happened in this case is that some(just takes one) of your friends and former-co workers found out you were traveling and enjoying yourselves while on unemployment benefits and they called in and reported you, which would result in your situation be very quickly evaluated. That you were still "out of town" when they started contacting you also looks pretty bad for you. Be aggressive in working with them now.

 

[Antigone*]

While an appeal is the right action to take, I don't see how the OP can win. He was not actively looking for work while he was visiting his honey across the pond ~ freelance or not he was not looking for a job.

If he answered the questions stating that he looked for work that he, and he was out of the country, then he lied and that might be his downfall.

I suggest that he speak to a criminal attorney. Whatever evidence comes out in the hearing may be used against him in a criminal trial.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

How was he planning on being at work Tuesday morning, for a job offered Monday night. He should pay the money back. Unemployment is not vacation time.

 

[commentator]

Unemployment insurance does not begin fraud cases with a criminal prosecution. Their systems are set up under the assumption that people will probably lie to them, that large numbers of people will try to commit unemployment fraud, (and be caught) and that in the majority of cases, getting the money back with penalties is much more primary to them than prosecuting and punishing the people who have committed the fraud.

Though sometimes there is a big publicity laden push to prosecute unemployment fraud cases, these tend to be in the nature of advertising. But in reality, unless the person is totally uncooperative, or especially large scale and blatant in their fraud activities, there can be payment arrangements worked out without the claimant being criminally charged with anything. If criminal prosecution of unemployment fraud were common, we'd have a really big boom in the jail population, expecially in times of recession like we've had lately.

Usually, since unemployment does not pay all that well to begin with, ($383 weekly max in Utah right now) it's not a Bernie Madolff type of criminal fraud, it involves the one person's claim coming from the state's unemployment fund, and most people are quite willing to cooperate and keep it within the unemployment system and repay the money with penalties to avoid prosecution.

Like most unemployment system activities, the fraud overpayment system is not like the court system. It is not set up so that an attorney is necessary to guide the average layman through. Unless the claimant is very inarticulate or very uneducated, there is very little advantage to being guided by an attorney, as there is no extra negotiation or extra benefit they can get you that is not going to be offered anyway. Refusing to talk to the investigators or cooperate is the worst thing you can do for yourself.

I agree that the chances of a successful appeal are slim here, it's pretty hard to swallow that the person was work searching out of the country during those weeks. I'm expecting that they're going to end up paying back some money here. But the worst thing they could do is refuse to deal with the civil system in place to collect on unemployment fraud until they are forced to prosecute.

 

[Zigner]

It's also a violation of human rights to keep people apart that are family or future family. This was not a vacation.

It is? Really?

Please tell me where this right is stated in the US legal system.

 

[grrrarg]

I wasn't trying to start a fight. Sorry. I thought human rights were global.

 

[Banned_Princess]

I wasn't trying to start a fight. Sorry. I thought human rights were global.

there is nothing that is global.

and seperation / not seperating from family is not a right, anywhere.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

What does hubby stealing money from the state of Utah have to do with the right for you to have a hubby in your bed?

 

[Zigner]

What does hubby stealing money from the state of Utah have to do with the right for you to have a hubby in your bed?

Or, even worse, a hubby-to-be.