Both parents denying grandparents visitation rights-

[Awest92]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

My husband and I have 2 children, our oldest is 7 months, our second is due in January. We have been discussing what we need to do to get ourselves together legally in the event one or both of us die unexpectedly.
One of the issues that we foresee is the possibility of grandparent visitation. It seems in my state (Missouri) that if we remain married, and mutually decide grandparent visitation is not in the best interest of our children, the law is in our favor. Is there any way that my husband can put in writing that upon his death, his parents cannot be granted visitation rights? In the event of his death, I would want to be able to dictate when my children & I could visit, instead of them being granted visits that I am obligated to comply with.
I am asking about visitation rights only at this point, because it is my understanding that custody of our children cannot be granted without very convincing grounds, but that visitation may be granted if there was an existing relationship with grandparents. Please correct me if I am wrong.
His parents are currently married, and we visit with his mother anywhere from 1-4 times a month, depending on schedules. His father has not seen our oldest (she is 7 months currently) in over 6 months, since she was 3 weeks old. Contact & visits were limited, even before we had children, due to some personal disputes involving finances, taxes, and a few other personal reasons (nothing like serious abuse, or anything blatantly illegal). We have never lived with them in the time we have been married, nor have we depended on them to provide for us financially.
I do not know how much background you may need, but I am happy to answer any additional questions, if need be.

1.)Do we (my husband & I) have the capability of denying visitation rights to his parents, should he die?
2.)If so, what is the best way to go about it (ie: anything specific we need to discuss with a lawyer when we do get around to creating a will)?
Thank you.

 

[BigMouthWino]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

My husband and I have 2 children, our oldest is 7 months, our second is due in January. We have been discussing what we need to do to get ourselves together legally in the event one or both of us die unexpectedly.
One of the issues that we foresee is the possibility of grandparent visitation. It seems in my state (Missouri) that if we remain married, and mutually decide grandparent visitation is not in the best interest of our children, the law is in our favor. Is there any way that my husband can put in writing that upon his death, his parents cannot be granted visitation rights? In the event of his death, I would want to be able to dictate when my children & I could visit, instead of them being granted visits that I am obligated to comply with.
I am asking about visitation rights only at this point, because it is my understanding that custody of our children cannot be granted without very convincing grounds, but that visitation may be granted if there was an existing relationship with grandparents. Please correct me if I am wrong.
His parents are currently married, and we visit with his mother anywhere from 1-4 times a month, depending on schedules. His father has not seen our oldest (she is 7 months currently) in over 6 months, since she was 3 weeks old. Contact & visits were limited, even before we had children, due to some personal disputes involving finances, taxes, and a few other personal reasons (nothing like serious abuse, or anything blatantly illegal).

So WHY exactly do you want to deny your children access to their grandparents? It sounds as though the only problems are between you, your husband and his parents. Don't you want your children to have a sense of family? To be around a couple that has been married for so long?

I just don't get why you are so hell bent on denying your children time with their extended family. That time can be a very important and cherished part of their lives.

You might also consider that the way your children see you and your husband treat your parents as adults is more likely than not the way you will be treated when they are adults.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

My husband and I have 2 children, our oldest is 7 months, our second is due in January. We have been discussing what we need to do to get ourselves together legally in the event one or both of us die unexpectedly.
One of the issues that we foresee is the possibility of grandparent visitation. It seems in my state (Missouri) that if we remain married, and mutually decide grandparent visitation is not in the best interest of our children, the law is in our favor. Is there any way that my husband can put in writing that upon his death, his parents cannot be granted visitation rights? In the event of his death, I would want to be able to dictate when my children & I could visit, instead of them being granted visits that I am obligated to comply with.
I am asking about visitation rights only at this point, because it is my understanding that custody of our children cannot be granted without very convincing grounds, but that visitation may be granted if there was an existing relationship with grandparents. Please correct me if I am wrong.
His parents are currently married, and we visit with his mother anywhere from 1-4 times a month, depending on schedules. His father has not seen our oldest (she is 7 months currently) in over 6 months, since she was 3 weeks old. Contact & visits were limited, even before we had children, due to some personal disputes involving finances, taxes, and a few other personal reasons (nothing like serious abuse, or anything blatantly illegal). We have never lived with them in the time we have been married, nor have we depended on them to provide for us financially.
I do not know how much background you may need, but I am happy to answer any additional questions, if need be.

1.)Do we (my husband & I) have the capability of denying visitation rights to his parents, should he die?
2.)If so, what is the best way to go about it (ie: anything specific we need to discuss with a lawyer when we do get around to creating a will)?
Thank you.

He can state his wishes HOWEVER that does not mean his wishes will dictate. Depends an awful lot on the circumstances at the time he would die. No one can foresee the future but while those may be his wishes, it doesn't mean they will enable a court to deny his parents visitation or even custody.

 

[Awest92]

One of the financial issues I referenced was in regards to a scholarship my husband was given. His mom basically stole it from him and did not intend to tell us. Thankfully, we DO have extended family (on both sides) that we can rely on & we were able to move on. My father-in-law has filed property tax information in my husband's name. This is par for the course for his parents. They have screwed over many a 'family' member for their own selfish gain. The only reason they have gotten away with it is because nobody has stood up for themselves and said, "No, you cannot do this to me any more." We have done our part to secure our future financially and we are only trying to keep our children safe from this entire mess as well. In the grand scheme of things, I would agree that it seems like piddly, dumb issues that we have. They could be druggies, they could be child molesters, it could be worse than it is. I know, squabbling over a few thousand dollars sounds dumb, and many people would say, "Just suck it up, they are 'family' and deserve a good relationship." I get it... but that's not what I am here for. (Please don't take that in a rude tone, that's not how I am trying to come across.)
However, we have decided to limit our children until they are old enough to decide who THEY would like to trust. As long as I am responsible for them, I cannot allow grandparents to be cheating them out of $3,000 like they tried to do to my husband. I feel like a part of that is making sure that I manage visitation, as opposed to a court mandating visits, should anything happen. I would hope to keep a similar visiting schedule as what we currently have, I would do my best to maintain what little relationship we do have, but neither my husband, nor I want it to be mandatory.
For what it's worth, we do have a wonderful relationship with my parents. There came a time when they housed us a couple months when we were in a tight spot. We have always been close and they have taken my husband as their own family as well. I would hope that in the event of my untimely death, my husband and children would maintain the relationship we currently have, but I would not want to make that mandatory for him either.
I did appreciate your comment about thinking ahead to how our children will treat us mirroring how we are treating our parents. I agree & we will do our best to be good children to them, especially towards the end. That does not mean that we cannot set boundaries up and enforce them. We do not have to serve them their every desire, just because they are our parents. We will also strive to be good parents and grandparents to our children & theirs.
I just want to explore any options we have.

 

[latigo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

My husband and I have 2 children, our oldest is 7 months, our second is due in January. We have been discussing what we need to do to get ourselves together legally in the event one or both of us die unexpectedly.
One of the issues that we foresee is the possibility of grandparent visitation. It seems in my state (Missouri) that if we remain married, and mutually decide grandparent visitation is not in the best interest of our children, the law is in our favor. Is there any way that my husband can put in writing that upon his death, his parents cannot be granted visitation rights? In the event of his death, I would want to be able to dictate when my children & I could visit, instead of them being granted visits that I am obligated to comply with.
I am asking about visitation rights only at this point, because it is my understanding that custody of our children cannot be granted without very convincing grounds, but that visitation may be granted if there was an existing relationship with grandparents. Please correct me if I am wrong.
His parents are currently married, and we visit with his mother anywhere from 1-4 times a month, depending on schedules. His father has not seen our oldest (she is 7 months currently) in over 6 months, since she was 3 weeks old. Contact & visits were limited, even before we had children, due to some personal disputes involving finances, taxes, and a few other personal reasons (nothing like serious abuse, or anything blatantly illegal). We have never lived with them in the time we have been married, nor have we depended on them to provide for us financially.
I do not know how much background you may need, but I am happy to answer any additional questions, if need be.

1.)Do we (my husband & I) have the capability of denying visitation rights to his parents, should he die?
2.)If so, what is the best way to go about it (ie: anything specific we need to discuss with a lawyer when we do get around to creating a will)?
Thank you.

Inasmuch as your major concern regarding the paternal grandparents’ right of access is purely contingent, I fail to see how you can gain any provisional help from here or elsewhere.

Clearly you are most familiar with the subject matter as set forth in Section 452.402 of the Missouri Revised Statutes.

But I can assure you that an expression from the grave of a deceased father or mother would carry no weight whatsoever regarding future access under sub-subsection (2):

"(2) One parent of the child is deceased and the surviving parent denies reasonable visitation to a parent of the deceased parent of the child;

 

[Awest92]

Thank you. I just wanted to ask if I might be overlooking any obvious loophole where they might be able to fight me for rights. My husband asked if getting it in writing from both parents pre-death would bear any weight to the courts. It seems unlikely they would be granted access unless I was totally unreasonable, but I do not intend to cut them out of my children's lives entirely without a very solid reason to.

 

[ecmst12]

None of this is even remotely relevent unless you think his parents would actually take you to court, and have the funds to do so. Pursing a GPV suit is quite expensive.

 

[LdiJ]

One of the financial issues I referenced was in regards to a scholarship my husband was given. His mom basically stole it from him and did not intend to tell us. Thankfully, we DO have extended family (on both sides) that we can rely on & we were able to move on. My father-in-law has filed property tax information in my husband's name. This is par for the course for his parents. They have screwed over many a 'family' member for their own selfish gain. The only reason they have gotten away with it is because nobody has stood up for themselves and said, "No, you cannot do this to me any more." We have done our part to secure our future financially and we are only trying to keep our children safe from this entire mess as well. In the grand scheme of things, I would agree that it seems like piddly, dumb issues that we have. They could be druggies, they could be child molesters, it could be worse than it is. I know, squabbling over a few thousand dollars sounds dumb, and many people would say, "Just suck it up, they are 'family' and deserve a good relationship." I get it... but that's not what I am here for. (Please don't take that in a rude tone, that's not how I am trying to come across.)
However, we have decided to limit our children until they are old enough to decide who THEY would like to trust. As long as I am responsible for them, I cannot allow grandparents to be cheating them out of $3,000 like they tried to do to my husband. I feel like a part of that is making sure that I manage visitation, as opposed to a court mandating visits, should anything happen. I would hope to keep a similar visiting schedule as what we currently have, I would do my best to maintain what little relationship we do have, but neither my husband, nor I want it to be mandatory.
For what it's worth, we do have a wonderful relationship with my parents. There came a time when they housed us a couple months when we were in a tight spot. We have always been close and they have taken my husband as their own family as well. I would hope that in the event of my untimely death, my husband and children would maintain the relationship we currently have, but I would not want to make that mandatory for him either.
I did appreciate your comment about thinking ahead to how our children will treat us mirroring how we are treating our parents. I agree & we will do our best to be good children to them, especially towards the end. That does not mean that we cannot set boundaries up and enforce them. We do not have to serve them their every desire, just because they are our parents. We will also strive to be good parents and grandparents to our children & theirs.
I just want to explore any options we have.

I think that you are overworrying the issue at this point...particularly if you and your husband are both normal and healthy people. Grandparent visitation is not some normal and automatic right the way that it is between two parents after they split up or divorce. It is something that is granted only in special circumstances...circumstances where children have strong bonds with grandparents, it will harm the children if those bonds are severed, and a parent is unreasonably denying any access between the children and the grandparent. Grandparent have a high hurdle to battle in a gpv case in your state.

If your family and the grandparents have a fairly normal relationship, or even just a mildly dysfunctional one, the issue of gpv would probably never arise. You also have no idea what the future holds for you and your husband or even if you will end up remaining in MO for the long haul. State law varies dramatically as far as gpv is concerned, and in several states gps have no standing to sue for visitation at all.

Therefore, in my opinion this isn't something that you need to be worrying at all about right now. As long as you and your husband are in agreement, are together, and are healthy, its not an issue to even worry about.

 

[davew128]

I just don't get why you are so hell bent on denying your children time with their extended family. That time can be a very important and cherished part of their lives.

I just don't get why you think it's at all relevant.

 

[BigMouthWino]

I just don't get why you think it's at all relevant.

Well the OP seemed to entirely get it, try reading the entire thread next time.

 

[ecmst12]

It's not relevent and it's not OP's concern, either. Try reading the thread.

 

[davew128]

Well the OP seemed to entirely get it, try reading the entire thread next time.

At which point you would have realized the sheer stupidity of your irrelevant comment as it pertains to the law.

 

[LdiJ]

I just don't get why you think it's at all relevant.

He thinks its relevant because he has had no experience with anyone who has ever been involved in a gpv case, therefore he cannot grasp at all that some grandparents are a serious problem.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

In this day and age of video recordings, etc, someone can document their feelings on matters. Would it stand up in court? May, maybe not, but it certainly could be used to find a middle ground.

I would also suggest that you do wills, and standby guardianship of the children. You cannot will your children, but a court would be predisposed to hear why things were set up the way that they were.