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Ex Mother-in-Laws Rights

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jkgreen78

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

I have been divorced from my ex-husband for 2.5 years due to abuse during our marriage. We have twin sons who are 6 years old. I currently have a protection from abuse order against him (he threatened to kill me via a voicemail among other things) and my district judge just extended the PFA by 2 years for myself and sons. My ex-husband is also on probation for violating the PFA. He was in jail for a few months due to this.

I have, in the past, given my ex-mother-in-law unsupervised visits with the boys as she lives in Kansas as well about 2 hours away. My ex-husband lives in Nevada, and now with the PFA, the only way for her to see the boys is through me. I have never denied her unsupervised visits until recently.

My ex-husband is a very dangerous man. The judge also agreed as he granted me a 3 year PFA. I found out that my ex-Mother-in-Law paid for his attorney to fight against me as he believes he deserves parenting time with the boys. Since finding this out, I have cut off her UNsupervised visits. I still allow her to come see the boys at my house, we meet her at movies, she comes to their music programs, she come to their sports events, she comes to the birthday party. Again, she gets supervised visits by me, but no UNsupervised visits.

Can she fight me legally for unsupervised visits? I believe she has started to consult with an attorney to do so. Please advise.

Thank you in advance.
 


ecmst12

Senior Member
She would have to sue both you and your ex, and it would cost her a lot of money to even have a prayer. If you are served with papers, hire your own lawyer. Do not agree to anything and stand your ground - you absolutely have the right to determine the terms where grandma can visit your kids.
 

sandyclaus

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

I have been divorced from my ex-husband for 2.5 years due to abuse during our marriage. We have twin sons who are 6 years old. I currently have a protection from abuse order against him (he threatened to kill me via a voicemail among other things) and my district judge just extended the PFA by 2 years for myself and sons. My ex-husband is also on probation for violating the PFA. He was in jail for a few months due to this.

I have, in the past, given my ex-mother-in-law unsupervised visits with the boys as she lives in Kansas as well about 2 hours away. My ex-husband lives in Nevada, and now with the PFA, the only way for her to see the boys is through me. I have never denied her unsupervised visits until recently.

My ex-husband is a very dangerous man. The judge also agreed as he granted me a 3 year PFA. I found out that my ex-Mother-in-Law paid for his attorney to fight against me as he believes he deserves parenting time with the boys. Since finding this out, I have cut off her UNsupervised visits. I still allow her to come see the boys at my house, we meet her at movies, she comes to their music programs, she come to their sports events, she comes to the birthday party. Again, she gets supervised visits by me, but no UNsupervised visits.

Can she fight me legally for unsupervised visits? I believe she has started to consult with an attorney to do so. Please advise.

Thank you in advance.
I think that it was a very smart thing for you to do, to start refusing unsupervised visits. It sounds to me like she may potentially be trying to use her visitation time to allow the father to visit with the children.

If she tries to sue for unsupervised visits, there is going to be the little issue of that PFA that not only protects YOU, but your children as well. The court is unlikely to find that, given her support of her son in trying to get parenting time with the boys, she is wanting unsupervised time out of the goodness of her heart. You aren't denying her time with the grandchildren, you're only denying her UNSUPERVISED time with the children as a way to ensure that she doesn't violate the PFA and allow her son to be around the kids.
 

latigo

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

I have been divorced from my ex-husband for 2.5 years due to abuse during our marriage. We have twin sons who are 6 years old. I currently have a protection from abuse order against him (he threatened to kill me via a voicemail among other things) and my district judge just extended the PFA by 2 years for myself and sons. My ex-husband is also on probation for violating the PFA. He was in jail for a few months due to this.

I have, in the past, given my ex-mother-in-law unsupervised visits with the boys as she lives in Kansas as well about 2 hours away. My ex-husband lives in Nevada, and now with the PFA, the only way for her to see the boys is through me. I have never denied her unsupervised visits until recently.

My ex-husband is a very dangerous man. The judge also agreed as he granted me a 3 year PFA. I found out that my ex-Mother-in-Law paid for his attorney to fight against me as he believes he deserves parenting time with the boys. Since finding this out, I have cut off her UNsupervised visits. I still allow her to come see the boys at my house, we meet her at movies, she comes to their music programs, she come to their sports events, she comes to the birthday party. Again, she gets supervised visits by me, but no UNsupervised visits.

Can she fight me legally for unsupervised visits? I believe she has started to consult with an attorney to do so. Please advise.

Thank you in advance.
This business of the protection orders has nothing whatsoever to do with the paternal grandmother’s rights of access to your twin boys.

Her rights of visitation are governed by Section 38-129 of the Kansas Statutes as upheld as constitutional in Skov v. Wicker. 272 Kan. 240 (2001).

K.S.A. Statute 38-129: Visitation rights of grandparents.

(a) The district court may grant the grandparents of an unmarried minor child reasonable visitation rights to the child during the child's minority upon a finding that the visitation rights would be in the child's best interests and when a substantial relationship between the child and the grandparent has been established.
You of course would have the right to contest such an application. But the fact that you have allowed visits in the past and no intervening material change of circumstances of her doing would not serve you well.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Yeap, paternal grandmother does has the statutory right to file for visitation. However that tricky little PFA between Mom & Dad which includes the children may well come into play.

Remember, this is not parent vs. parent. This is grandparent vs. parent.
 

BL

Senior Member
If GPV were to be ordered ,the court can include order(s) to cover the Protection order.

Grand could follow it ,or violate it and then there would come contempt and more court appearances .

Never know.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
If GPV were to be ordered ,the court can include order(s) to cover the Protection order.

Grand could follow it ,or violate it and then there would come contempt and more court appearances .

Never know.
GPV won't be ordered if the court determines that there is a strong likelihood of the GP exposing the vulnerable child/ren to the abusive parent.

Come on, BL. You know better than this.
 

BL

Senior Member
GPV won't be ordered if the court determines that there is a strong likelihood of the GP exposing the vulnerable child/ren to the abusive parent.

Come on, BL. You know better than this.
Not really . I'm a Nyk'r , don't know how they work things in their State, so I just threw that out there as an "IF".
 

jkgreen78

Junior Member
I want to reiterate that she has visitation with the boys. In fact, she has quite a lot of visitation. The boys call her on the phone a minimum of 2 times a week, she comes to their school activities as well as sports events. In fact, she celebrated Passover with us just last week. What she is VERY upset about is that she doesn't have unsupervised visits. Mainly she is wanting the boys to have sleepovers at her house like they have done in the past. Once I found out she was paying her son's legal fees to fight me (I'm doing everything in my power to keep the boys safe from their father until he at least finishes the court mandated batters' intervention), this is when I made the decision she can no longer have the boys unsupervised. She stated that the fact that her son hates me (and wants to kill me) has nothing to do with the boys. :) I can accept that she has little regard for my life, but what she thinks is in the best interest of my sons is not what I, as their mother, think is in the best interest of my sons. Again, thank you for your responses.





Yeap, paternal grandmother does has the statutory right to file for visitation. However that tricky little PFA between Mom & Dad which includes the children may well come into play.

Remember, this is not parent vs. parent. This is grandparent vs. parent.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
This business of the protection orders has nothing whatsoever to do with the paternal grandmother’s rights of access to your twin boys.

Her rights of visitation are governed by Section 38-129 of the Kansas Statutes as upheld as constitutional in Skov v. Wicker. 272 Kan. 240 (2001).



You of course would have the right to contest such an application. But the fact that you have allowed visits in the past and no intervening material change of circumstances of her doing would not serve you well.
That law doesn't give her rights of visitation. That law gives her standing to sue for visitation. Standing to sue for third party visitation in no way confers a "right to visitation". Nor does it confer a win. Nor is the bolded in any way relevant or accurate. The burden of proof in a third party case is on the third party, not the parent, and "change in circumstances" is not relevant, particularly since there were no prior orders.

I suggest that you read Troxel vs Granville...and the re-read Skov vs Wicker.

Skov vs Wicker states the following:

The application of K.S.A. 2000 Supp. 60-1616(b) with no limitations on granting grandparents visitation violates a parent's fundamental right to custody, care, and control of his or her child under the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

5.

K.S.A. 2000 Supp. 60-1616(b) is construed to be constitutional and does not violate the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution so long as the burden of proof is upon the grandparents to show such visitation is in the child's best interests and that a substantial relationship with the grandchild exists. In addition, special weight must be given to the fundamental presumption that a fit parent will act in the best interests of his or her child.
This case was also remanded to the trial court to be re-heard, it was not an automatic finding for the grandparent nor for the constitutionality of the statute as applied.
 
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jkgreen78

Junior Member
But she gets visitation already. I don't see how she can fight for visitation when she gets plenty of it now. She would want to fight for unsupervised visits - she wants sleepovers at her house, etc. I'm confused on why she can fight me for visitation when she already has visitation...the visitation is just not to her liking.



This business of the protection orders has nothing whatsoever to do with the paternal grandmother’s rights of access to your twin boys.

Her rights of visitation are governed by Section 38-129 of the Kansas Statutes as upheld as constitutional in Skov v. Wicker. 272 Kan. 240 (2001).



You of course would have the right to contest such an application. But the fact that you have allowed visits in the past and no intervening material change of circumstances of her doing would not serve you well.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
But she gets visitation already. I don't see how she can fight for visitation when she gets plenty of it now. She would want to fight for unsupervised visits - she wants sleepovers at her house, etc. I'm confused on why she can fight me for visitation when she already has visitation...the visitation is just not to her liking.
Because she doesn't want to her continued access to the children to be based on your whims. You were fine with her visits in the past, but now that she's assisting her son (the father of the children), you change "the rules" on visitation. If there were a court order, then it protects her.
 

jkgreen78

Junior Member
I am their mother. I don't get to decide what is in my sons best interest? I'm not arguing, I'm just asking. As of now I have sole custody of the boys. Again, thank you for your responses.

Because she doesn't want to her continued access to the children to be based on your whims. You were fine with her visits in the past, but now that she's assisting her son (the father of the children), you change "the rules" on visitation. If there were a court order, then it protects her.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Because she doesn't want to her continued access to the children to be based on your whims. You were fine with her visits in the past, but now that she's assisting her son (the father of the children), you change "the rules" on visitation. If there were a court order, then it protects her.
That's why she wants visitation, but it is not a given at all that a court will award her that visitation. Parents are allowed to make decisions based on the best interest of their children, even if it means a change.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I am their mother. I don't get to decide what is in my sons best interest? I'm not arguing, I'm just asking. As of now I have sole custody of the boys. Again, thank you for your responses.
If it goes to court, then no, you don't get to decide. The courts will.

I am not making ANY statement on the validity of your position. I am merely answering your questions.
 

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