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GPV in Ohio

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kik1999

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My question is about my mother, my daughter's grandmother. I have sole legal and physical custody. Yes, I know that is rare, but my divorce took place 10 + years ago, and my ex was active duty military in another state and didn't fight me on it, so it was ordered, and the court order has never been re-visited. My ex and I have an amazingly amicable relationship. We are both remarried, and while he doesn't currently live in OH, he did for a period of about 5 years, at which time we split the time with our daughter almost 50/50. He agrees with me 100% on the issue regarding my mother.

The issue is as follows: my parents had a stable, consistent relationship with my daughter until the end of 2006, at which time they divorced. From 2007 - 2009, my mother saw my daughter, but it was definitely not nearly as regularly as before, maybe once or twice every 3 months. She remarried pretty quickly and after meeting her new husband a handful of times, my daughter (who is 12 by the way), expressed extreme discomfort around the new husband. I mean she literally said, "he makes me feel uncomfortable". So, I did not force her to see my mother when she called and asked to see her. I tried to explain the situation to my mother, but she doesn't care...she wants to force the new relationship on my daughter and have her new husband basically take my father's place and be the "new" grandpa. Her new husband actually threatened to take custody of my daughter if I did not let her see my mom. I told him to bite rocks and never thought another thing of it. He's definitely a controlling a** who tries to intimidate people into doing what he wants. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with why my daughter is uncomfortable around him.

In any event, she has not seen or talked to my daughter in almost 2 years. I have never denied her visits, I just expressed that for the time being if she wanted to see my daughter, I would not be forcing her to go over to her home or spend the night, so she all out stopped talking to me altogether. I found out on Wednesday of this week that my mother tried to access my daughter at her school and obviously was denied. She tried again to access her at her bus stop...this time I was there to intervene. She waived a gift in front of my daughter and tried to bribe her to come to her car. I almost filed a police report....I'm kicking myself now for not doing so. My daughter is a straight A student in advanced classes, in the student council, runs track, in drama club, etc. and is a very healthy happy girl, mainly because my ex-husband and I have kept her free of any drama.

Basically, I want to send her a certified letter telling her if she wants to see my daughter, she needs to go through me, not circumvent me and try to gain access without my approval. I'm afraid it might cause more waves and push her to try to gain visitation. I understand OH is liberal with granting GPV if there is a previous relationship. Being that she hasn't seen her in almost 2 years, and the fact my ex is in full agreement, should I worry about her being granted visitation? Her husband has threatened that he has more money and therefore he would crush me in court. I'm not worried about him in the least. But I don't think she is thinking about what is in my daughter's best interest at this point. And I can say with certainty I don't want HIM anywhere near my child.

It's absolute B.S. that I have to worry about this. My ex and I are fit parents. We should be able to have a say who is in or out of our child's life. Thanks in advance for your time!!
 


Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My question is about my mother, my daughter's grandmother. I have sole legal and physical custody. Yes, I know that is rare, but my divorce took place 10 + years ago, and my ex was active duty military in another state and didn't fight me on it, so it was ordered, and the court order has never been re-visited. My ex and I have an amazingly amicable relationship. We are both remarried, and while he doesn't currently live in OH, he did for a period of about 5 years, at which time we split the time with our daughter almost 50/50. He agrees with me 100% on the issue regarding my mother.

The issue is as follows: my parents had a stable, consistent relationship with my daughter until the end of 2006, at which time they divorced. From 2007 - 2009, my mother saw my daughter, but it was definitely not nearly as regularly as before, maybe once or twice every 3 months. She remarried pretty quickly and after meeting her new husband a handful of times, my daughter (who is 12 by the way), expressed extreme discomfort around the new husband. I mean she literally said, "he makes me feel uncomfortable". So, I did not force her to see my mother when she called and asked to see her. I tried to explain the situation to my mother, but she doesn't care...she wants to force the new relationship on my daughter and have her new husband basically take my father's place and be the "new" grandpa. Her new husband actually threatened to take custody of my daughter if I did not let her see my mom. I told him to bite rocks and never thought another thing of it. He's definitely a controlling a** who tries to intimidate people into doing what he wants. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with why my daughter is uncomfortable around him.

In any event, she has not seen or talked to my daughter in almost 2 years. I have never denied her visits, I just expressed that for the time being if she wanted to see my daughter, I would not be forcing her to go over to her home or spend the night, so she all out stopped talking to me altogether. I found out on Wednesday of this week that my mother tried to access my daughter at her school and obviously was denied. She tried again to access her at her bus stop...this time I was there to intervene. She waived a gift in front of my daughter and tried to bribe her to come to her car. I almost filed a police report....I'm kicking myself now for not doing so. My daughter is a straight A student in advanced classes, in the student council, runs track, in drama club, etc. and is a very healthy happy girl, mainly because my ex-husband and I have kept her free of any drama.

Basically, I want to send her a certified letter telling her if she wants to see my daughter, she needs to go through me, not circumvent me and try to gain access without my approval. I'm afraid it might cause more waves and push her to try to gain visitation. I understand OH is liberal with granting GPV if there is a previous relationship. Being that she hasn't seen her in almost 2 years, and the fact my ex is in full agreement, should I worry about her being granted visitation? Her husband has threatened that he has more money and therefore he would crush me in court. I'm not worried about him in the least. But I don't think she is thinking about what is in my daughter's best interest at this point. And I can say with certainty I don't want HIM anywhere near my child.

It's absolute B.S. that I have to worry about this. My ex and I are fit parents. We should be able to have a say who is in or out of our child's life. Thanks in advance for your time!!
Personally I would have my attorney send a ..."nice" ...letter letting your nutjob...oops! sorry...Letting Grandmother know that she is on notice to NOT harass your child. The Attorney will use the correct legalize...It "may" cause GM to stay away. Perhaps not. :(
 

kik1999

Member
Personally I would have my attorney send a ..."nice" ...letter letting your nutjob...oops! sorry...Letting Grandmother know that she is on notice to NOT harass your child. The Attorney will use the correct legalize...It "may" cause GM to stay away. Perhaps not. :(
YAY! You see she's a nutjob too! LOL

Actually, it's not yay. It's really very, very sad. I am an only child and my child is her only grandchild. Grandparents are supposed to spoil their grandkids and have all kinds of fun. Mine is totally pushing her "new" husband and his kids (which are younger than my child) on her like her "new" family. We all agree (me, my ex and the other members of my extended family, all who see my child on a regular basis) that she lost it when she married this whacko. He threatens everyone with court actions and his money. So narcissistic.:rolleyes:

Yep, might be worth the money to have an attorney send her a letter. Thanks!
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
YAY! You see she's a nutjob too! LOL

Actually, it's not yay. It's really very, very sad. I am an only child and my child is her only grandchild. Grandparents are supposed to spoil their grandkids and have all kinds of fun. Mine is totally pushing her "new" husband and his kids (which are younger than my child) on her like her "new" family. We all agree (me, my ex and the other members of my extended family, all who see my child on a regular basis) that she lost it when she married this whacko. He threatens everyone with court actions and his money. So narcissistic.:rolleyes:

Yep, might be worth the money to have an attorney send her a letter. Thanks!

I think most GP's that pull this crap are nuts. It's just a stupid thing to do...

I'm gonna send a link to OG and ask her to advise...I'm sure she will give better advice than I.:)
 

Antigone*

Senior Member
Personally I would have my attorney send a ..."nice" ...letter letting your nutjob...oops! sorry...Letting Grandmother know that she is on notice to NOT harass your child. The Attorney will use the correct legalize...It "may" cause GM to stay away. Perhaps not. :(
I completely agree with Blue. A letter from your attorney is the way to go. Also have a chat with your daughter about what to do if approached by nutjob.

Don't go into details, just let little one know that for the time being you don't want grandma around unless you are. Thats' it.
 

kik1999

Member
Thank you

Thank you both. I really can't believe this is happening at all. I am going to be ticked beyond belief if she files for visitation and I have to shell out a crap load of money to fight her. I've read a few horror stories on here and I really feel for the parents that this happens to ~ specifically, I remember a few senior members in NY maybe, who had GPV ordered? I was just hoping that since she hadn't seen her in quite some time now, she couldn't state it was in my daughter's best interest to remain a constant in her life. I mean, she can state whatever she wants, but I hope it wouldn't hold any weight.

And as far as my daughter, it's sad, but as soon as saw my mother was trying to bribe her, she looked at me and said under her breath, "call the cops, Mom". She has formed her own opinion of her being crazy, without me saying a word. :eek:
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
You don't have much to worry about. Quite frankly your mother would have to sue you and your daughter's father in the proper jurisdiction (the county where your divorce was granted) AND prove that she needed visitation and the court should ignore you. Not going to happen if you and your daughter's father are on the same page. The court might order mediation but DO NOT AGREE.
 

kik1999

Member
You don't have much to worry about. Quite frankly your mother would have to sue you and your daughter's father in the proper jurisdiction (the county where your divorce was granted) AND prove that she needed visitation and the court should ignore you. Not going to happen if you and your daughter's father are on the same page. The court might order mediation but DO NOT AGREE.
I cannot thank you enough for putting my mind at ease. I was hoping that would be the case. I would definitely not agree to any visitation with her at all. At this point we're seriously questioning her mental state. Who knows what lengths she will go to ~ when the school called me to tell me she tried to access my daughter last week, even they seemed pretty concerned that some strange lady who claimed to be related (but was not listed on ANY emergency forms anywhere) was trying to get information and come to see her during school.

A letter from an attorney is the route we're probably going to end up going. I spoke with my ex early this morning and he offered to go half with me. :)

I appreciate everyone's help and time!!
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
All I can say is that if my mom showed up at my daughter's school/bus stop with a Snickers and tried to get her into a car, grandma would be wondering why all those police cars were parked in her yard.

Time to stop the drama.

Have the lawyer include words around "don't make me get a restraining order against you to keep you the hell away from my daughter" in the letter.

Her showing up repeatedly to try to entice your child is scary to a large degree.
 

Rushia

Senior Member
OK OG. I'm looking for the statues and can't find them in the mess that's coming up on google. States that have GPV are about the same and I know that Ohio is considered the 3rd worse state for parents in these kinds of cases. So my question is WHERE can I see it LOL. But I am going to say this to OP being somewhat "in the know" on these. USUALLY in order for the court to order against GPV when the parents are in agreement is in an INTACT family. OP is not and I don't think she could hang her entire hat on that in an actual case. I say this only as we tried that in my case and it did not work as there was case law that stated that was WHY gpv was needed. Yes I know NY is not the same as OH but it is something that should be considered.

OP, I am in agreement that the letter should be sent. BUT the very next time she attempts to contact your child OUTSIDE of your control (and a public event doesn't count, I mean at school or somewhere she would believe you not to be with your child), contact the police OR have the child do it if she is not with you.
 

kik1999

Member
All I can say is that if my mom showed up at my daughter's school/bus stop with a Snickers and tried to get her into a car, grandma would be wondering why all those police cars were parked in her yard.

Time to stop the drama.

Have the lawyer include words around "don't make me get a restraining order against you to keep you the hell away from my daughter" in the letter.

Her showing up repeatedly to try to entice your child is scary to a large degree.
Uh yea, I wanted to file a restraining order based on that specific day of events...her a.) trying to gain access at the school and then b.) the very same day showed up at her bus stop, which by the way, how in the heck did she know where her bus stop was? My daughter is in a new school since the last time we had contact ~ she was in elementary and now she's in middle school, but there are 4 different middle schools in our district, and she actually doesn't go to the one that we're districted to go to. The whole thing is just creepy. I will definitely make sure the atty threatens with a future restraining order.
 

kik1999

Member
OK OG. I'm looking for the statues and can't find them in the mess that's coming up on google. States that have GPV are about the same and I know that Ohio is considered the 3rd worse state for parents in these kinds of cases. So my question is WHERE can I see it LOL. But I am going to say this to OP being somewhat "in the know" on these. USUALLY in order for the court to order against GPV when the parents are in agreement is in an INTACT family. OP is not and I don't think she could hang her entire hat on that in an actual case. I say this only as we tried that in my case and it did not work as there was case law that stated that was WHY gpv was needed. Yes I know NY is not the same as OH but it is something that should be considered.

OP, I am in agreement that the letter should be sent. BUT the very next time she attempts to contact your child OUTSIDE of your control (and a public event doesn't count, I mean at school or somewhere she would believe you not to be with your child), contact the police OR have the child do it if she is not with you.
Yes, I do remember reading here that OH was not the greatest state to live in as a parent if you are against GPV. That is what initially caused my concern. I will absolutely contact the police if there are any more situations.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Grandparents have standing to sue for visitation. That I will NOT deny. Caselaw is where you want to look. Start with Troxel. Then go to this case:
Bonner v. Deselm-Bonner, 2011-Ohio-2348, 10CA000033 (OHCA5)

{¶25} "(D) In determining whether to grant parenting time to a parent pursuant to this section or section 3109.12 of the Revised Code or companionship or visitation rights to a grandparent, relative, or other person pursuant to this section or section 3109.11 or 3109.12 of the Revised Code, in establishing a specific parenting time or visitation schedule, and in determining other parenting time matters under this section or section 3109.12 of the Revised Code or visitation matters under this section or section 3109.11 or 3109.12 of the Revised Code, the court shall consider all of the following factors:

{¶26} "(1) The prior interaction and interrelationships of the child with the child's parents, siblings, and other persons related by consanguinity or affinity, and with the person who requested companionship or visitation if that person is not a parent, sibling, or relative of the child;

{¶27} "(2) The geographical location of the residence of each parent and the distance between those residences, * * *;

{¶28} "(3) The child's and parents' available time, including, but not limited to, each parent's employment schedule, the child's school schedule, and the child's and the parents' holiday and vacation schedule;

{¶29} "(4) The age of the child;

{¶30} "(5) The child's adjustment to home, school, and community;

{¶31} "(6) If the court has interviewed the child in chambers, pursuant to division (C) of this section, regarding the wishes and concerns of the child as to parenting time by the parent who is not the residential parent or companionship or visitation by the grandparent, relative, or other person who requested companionship or visitation, as to a specific parenting time or visitation schedule, or as to other parenting time or visitation matters, the wishes and concerns of the child, as expressed to the court;

{¶32} "(7) The health and safety of the child;

{¶33} "(8) The amount of time that will be available for the child to spend with siblings;

{¶34} "(9) The mental and physical health of all parties;

{¶35} "(10) Each parent's willingness to reschedule missed parenting time and to facilitate the other parent's parenting time rights, * * *;

{¶36} " * * *

{¶37} "(16) Any other factor in the best interest of the child."

Then this:
Byer v. Byer, 2010-Ohio-3705, 2009-CA-00277 (OHCA5)


33} In the recent case of Troxel v. Granville (2000), 530 U.S. 57, the United States Supreme Court found there is a presumption that a fit parent acts in the best interest of his or her children, and when a trial court intervenes into the private realm of the family, it must accord special weight to the parent's wishes. The Ohio Supreme Court has held the factors in R.C. 3109.051 allow the trial court to take into consideration the best interest of the child and to balance his or her interest against the parent's desires. Harrold v. Collier, 107 Ohio.St.3d 44, 2005-Ohio-5334, 836 N.E.2d 1165.

{¶34} In Spivey v. Keller, Allen App. No. 6-04-09, 2004-Ohio- 6667, the court of appeals for the Third District found the decision whether to order a grandparent visitation rights with a child is within the court's discretion. Spivey at paragraph 16. The Supreme Court has repeatedly held the term abuse of discretion implies the court's attitude is unreasonable, arbitrary or unconscionable, Blakemore v. Blakemore (1983), 5 Ohio.St.3d 217, 219, 450 N.E.2d 1140. When applying the abuse of discretion standard, this court may not substitute our judgment for that of the trial court, Pons v. Ohio State Medical Board, 66 Ohio.St.3d 619, 621. 1993 -Ohio- 122, 614 N.E.2d 748.
In addition to the above, Byer gives basically step by step means of avoiding court ordered visitation.
 

Rushia

Senior Member
Grandparents have standing to sue for visitation. That I will NOT deny. Caselaw is where you want to look. Start with Troxel. Then go to this case:
Bonner v. Deselm-Bonner, 2011-Ohio-2348, 10CA000033 (OHCA5)




Then this:
Byer v. Byer, 2010-Ohio-3705, 2009-CA-00277 (OHCA5)



In addition to the above, Byer gives basically step by step means of avoiding court ordered visitation.
I want the statute for my own records you goob. LOL
 

kik1999

Member
Thank you very much, Ohiogal. I have a couple of questions regarding Byer v. Byer, 2010-Ohio-3705. Specifically,

“(6) If the court has interviewed the child in chambers, pursuant to division
(C) of this section, regarding the wishes and concerns of the child as to parenting time
by the parent who is not the residential parent or companionship or visitation by the
grandparent, relative, or other person who requested companionship or visitation, as to Stark County, Case No. 2009-CA-00277 6
a specific parenting time or visitation schedule, or as to other parenting time or visitation
matters, the wishes and concerns of the child, as expressed to the court


I don't want to have to put my child through this, but would a judge entertain her wishes since she is 12? She is adamant about not wanting to see her grandmother. You know, I have told my mother time and time again that if she did want to see her, she needs to go through me and not once has she asked me and I've denied her (except in the past if maybe we had already had plans). One of the reasons this entire falling out happened is because her and her new husband would email my daughter behind my back and try to make plans. My daughter was 9 at this point. Her husband specifically, would email my daughter telling her how "sad Nana is that she hasn't seen you" and how Nana cries because it's been so long since she's come to visit and she needs to talk to Mommy and stepdaddy and see if she can come visit. I had a fit when I found this out, because my ex and I go out of our way to make sure she's not put in the middle of anything, I'll be damned if some strange guy my mom married is going to try to make my daughter feel guilty and put her in the middle. The guy is just a creeper. :rolleyes:

When I told her that her husband is no longer allowed to be around my daughter unsupervised is when she stopped requesting to see her.
 

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