Grandmother wants visitation after 2 years

[ablexus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California/Arizona

Ex and I had a son, now the paternal grandmother (my mother) is looking for visitation from ex in Arizona. I live in California, joint legal custody, ex has primary physicalcustody in Arizona. Grandmother decided she didn't want to live with her husband any more and drove all the way from Michigan to Arizona, where my ex and my son live, to see my son after not having seen him one time in two years. Never called him. Only sent him one gift. I feel like she is trying to establish a relationship only to have a leg to stand on later to sue me or my ex for visitation.

She has also done weird stuff like parking next to the ex's and ex's parents house for an hour at a time and leaving when the cops came. Hasn't called or emailed me or the ex to ask us, just showed up out of the blue. Last contact was before my most recent wedding, 10 months ago, by email, which includes vile and hateful language from grandmother about why she was boycotting the wedding. Very concerned to say the least.

Please give me advice what I should do. Can she force mother to let grandmother see grandson? Can she force me? Can we defend ourselves if sued using [url]http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/25/00409.htm&Title=25&DocType=ARS[/url] Document ?

Thanks for any help.

[JKBee]

Is there any real reason you are not willing to let her visit the child? Other than lack of contact in the past? Has she harmed the child with anything other than just neglect of being a grandparent?

Grandparents do have rights, and if she is really wanting to get to know the child, wouldn't it be better for both her and the child to have the opportunity to get to know each other?

At this point she can't force you to let her visit your child, but is this really what you want? If she raised your ex with love and kindness, shouldn't your child get to know the same from her?

Visitation is just that. A visit. It isn't as if she were asking you for custody rights. The more people in a child's life who love them just make for more security and better adjustment to future problems that the child will have more support for.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by JKBee

Is there any real reason you are not willing to let her visit the child? Other than lack of contact in the past? Has she harmed the child with anything other than just neglect of being a grandparent?

Frankly in this situation OP has no obligation to explain why grandmother shouldn't visit.

Grandparents do have rights, and if she is really wanting to get to know the child, wouldn't it be better for both her and the child to have the opportunity to get to know each other?

Grandparents have no inherent rights to their grandchildren. At all.

At this point she can't force you to let her visit your child, but is this really what you want? If she raised your ex with love and kindness, shouldn't your child get to know the same from her?

Two years of nothingness isn't exactly love and kindness. If she wants to make amends that's fine but in doing so she must respect the wishes of the parents.

Visitation is just that. A visit. It isn't as if she were asking you for custody rights. The more people in a child's life who love them just make for more security and better adjustment to future problems that the child will have more support for.

This is very true. But that does not mean OP has to agree to what grandmother wants, at all.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by ablexus

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California/Arizona

Ex and I had a son, now the paternal grandmother (my mother) is looking for visitation from ex in Arizona. I live in California, joint legal custody, ex has primary physicalcustody in Arizona. Grandmother decided she didn't want to live with her husband any more and drove all the way from Michigan to Arizona, where my ex and my son live, to see my son after not having seen him one time in two years. Never called him. Only sent him one gift. I feel like she is trying to establish a relationship only to have a leg to stand on later to sue me or my ex for visitation.

She has also done weird stuff like parking next to the ex's and ex's parents house for an hour at a time and leaving when the cops came. Hasn't called or emailed me or the ex to ask us, just showed up out of the blue. Last contact was before my most recent wedding, 10 months ago, by email, which includes vile and hateful language from grandmother about why she was boycotting the wedding. Very concerned to say the least.

Please give me advice what I should do. Can she force mother to let grandmother see grandson? Can she force me? Can we defend ourselves if sued using [url=http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/25/00409.htm&Title=25&DocType=ARS]Format Document[/url] Document ?

Thanks for any help.

She may try to force visitation but - at the moment at least - she will have an incredibly difficult battle ahead of her; she has no real prior relationship with the grandchildren and that's generally considered essential if she wishes to win in court. If eventually you are ok with her visiting you are absolutely within your rights to have it happen on your terms (at least when the children are with you). What does your ex think about it?

[ablexus]

Originally Posted by JKBee

Is there any real reason you are not willing to let her visit the child? Other than lack of contact in the past? Has she harmed the child with anything other than just neglect of being a grandparent?

Grandparents do have rights, and if she is really wanting to get to know the child, wouldn't it be better for both her and the child to have the opportunity to get to know each other?

At this point she can't force you to let her visit your child, but is this really what you want? If she raised your ex with love and kindness, shouldn't your child get to know the same from her?

Visitation is just that. A visit. It isn't as if she were asking you for custody rights. The more people in a child's life who love them just make for more security and better adjustment to future problems that the child will have more support for.

Thanks for the feedback.

That's the thing. She didn't raise my ex, she raised me (note I said "paternal" grandmother). And it was far from a kind and loving upbringing.

I've already chosen to exclude her from my life for entire years at a time after I reached adulthood because she is verbally and emotionally abusive. She has estranged everybody in her life up to this point, her parents, her brothers, all three of her kids, and now the only person I thought would be there to the end, her husband. She left him out of the blue and is now asking him for a divorce. The first notification he had of her whereabouts was two days ago when we noticed her sitting outside the ex's parents house in her car and asked him why. Thought he was in on it. Turns out he had no clue because she left in the middle of the day when he was at work.

Does that not concern anybody? Coupled with the waiting outside the house for hours at a time? And showing up unannounced? And driving 1400 miles on a whim? Am I the only person here who is concerned about my son ending up with an Amber alert out on him?

[JKBee]

This is absolutely true, that grandmother has no legal rights at this point. But unless there is a reason other than formerly ignoring grandchild, shouldn't grandmother be given a chance to know grandchild?

If there is a reason why grandparent shouldn't be allowed visitation, then visitation should be rejected.

Only the parents have the right to make this decision. But it does seem a shame to deny grandmother visitation if there is no reason to believe there could be harm done through visits.

Very possibly the grandmother has realized that life is short and wants to get to know both her son and grandchild better. ?

[JKBee]

Okay, you've given more than enough reason to deny visitation. If you have totally excluded grandmother from your life, then you should not be forced to have your child subjected to what you were raised with!

My grandchildren don't know their other grandmother for pretty much exactly the same reason. As much as I wish it could be otherwise, if the grandmother isn't a loving, nurturing individual, more harm than good could come of it.

Too many times I see parents trying to control the life of the child for too selfish a reason. Yours doesn't seem selfish, but protective.

It isn't just your right to protect the child, but your obligation!

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by ablexus

Thanks for the feedback.

That's the thing. She didn't raise my ex, she raised me (note I said "paternal" grandmother). And it was far from a kind and loving upbringing.

I've already chosen to exclude her from my life for entire years at a time after I reached adulthood because she is verbally and emotionally abusive. She has estranged everybody in her life up to this point, her parents, her brothers, all three of her kids, and now the only person I thought would be there to the end, her husband. She left him out of the blue and is now asking him for a divorce. The first notification he had of her whereabouts was two days ago when we noticed her sitting outside the ex's parents house in her car and asked him why. Thought he was in on it. Turns out he had no clue because she left in the middle of the day when he was at work.

Does that not concern anybody? Coupled with the waiting outside the house for hours at a time? And showing up unannounced? And driving 1400 miles on a whim? Am I the only person here who is concerned about my son ending up with an Amber alert out on him?

Whoa - when did we switch from grandparent visitation to possible kidnap scenarios?!

You do not have to allow visitation. Your ex does not have to allow visitation.

[ablexus]

Originally Posted by JKBee

This is absolutely true, that grandmother has no legal rights at this point. But unless there is a reason other than formerly ignoring grandchild, shouldn't grandmother be given a chance to know grandchild?

Maybe you missed the part where I said she was verbally and emotionally abusive. Or perhaps the part where I said she estranged everybody in her family. Or maybe the part where I said that she has acted like a mentally unstable stalker and disappeared in the middle of the day, drove across the country, and then sat outside her grandson's last known address for hours at a time? Am I seriously the crazy one here? I understand and support a normal grandparent's visit of their grandson. But this is not the grandparent I want in my son's life.

Originally Posted by JKBee

If there is a reason why grandparent shouldn't be allowed visitation, then visitation should be rejected.

Only the parents have the right to make this decision. But it does seem a shame to deny grandmother visitation if there is no reason to believe there could be harm done through visits.

Very possibly the grandmother has realized that life is short and wants to get to know both her son and grandchild better. ?

If I were her and that was my motivation, I would have gone to California where my son lived.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by ablexus

Thanks for the feedback.

That's the thing. She didn't raise my ex, she raised me (note I said "paternal" grandmother). And it was far from a kind and loving upbringing.

I've already chosen to exclude her from my life for entire years at a time after I reached adulthood because she is verbally and emotionally abusive. She has estranged everybody in her life up to this point, her parents, her brothers, all three of her kids, and now the only person I thought would be there to the end, her husband. She left him out of the blue and is now asking him for a divorce. The first notification he had of her whereabouts was two days ago when we noticed her sitting outside the ex's parents house in her car and asked him why. Thought he was in on it. Turns out he had no clue because she left in the middle of the day when he was at work.

Does that not concern anybody? Coupled with the waiting outside the house for hours at a time? And showing up unannounced? And driving 1400 miles on a whim? Am I the only person here who is concerned about my son ending up with an Amber alert out on him?

(you are still, by the way, NOT obliged to explain your reasons for not wanting her to visit....to anyone. You owe nobody an explanation and you don't have to justify a darned thing; I believe you will also find that many people feel very strongly that a parent's wishes should never - or very, very rarely - be trumped by a third party's desire for visitation unless it's very clear that the child will suffer without that third party's presence in their life)

[JKBee]

Yes, I did miss that point. Too many times on this forum, you can find that while you are thinking up what it is you want to say, the forum has gone on ten posts beyond your thinking.

In this instance, though, I simply didn't register the second paragraph. Daughter called and distracted me. But go back to my former post #7

[ablexus]

Well, thank you very much for the advice. I am sorry if I was brusque in my responses, I guess I am disturbed that my parents are divorcing after 20 years of marriage and that somebody I don't want in my son's life seems to be forcing her way in.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by ablexus

Well, thank you very much for the advice. I am sorry if I was brusque in my responses, I guess I am disturbed that my parents are divorcing after 20 years of marriage and that somebody I don't want in my son's life seems to be forcing her way in.

There is very little chance that she could force her way into your child's life. As you were already told, she has no pre-existing relationship with the child, therefore the child can suffer no harm from not having her in his life.

Hopefully she will reach the point where she gives up the stalking, or where the police scare her off for good.