grandparent rights

[sheila4950]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho/Oregon

daughter died in january 2009. leaving 5 year old granddaughter. on final day of daughter's life, while everyone was gathered at the hospital, I (step grandmother) suggested we call an attorney (i'm the level headed, non-emotional one). the grandmother jumps up and says "what for?", there is nothing to leave in a will. my response is to remind everyone that there is a 5 years old girl who will need raising and knowing that the family does not want the father involved, to protect their rights, a guardian must be appointed.

well, the grandmother jumps up,says she already has the paperwork (unsigned) and proceeds to contact the hospital to get a notary to have the mother (on her deathbed) sign papers giving custody to her.

now, that is not a problem until after the daughter passes. the grandmother now has custody and is playing "power" with the granddaughter. as the other set of grandparents (the father of the daughter who passed away), we have to beg to get the granddaughter for a visit. we are not allowed to talk to her on the phone nor see her without the grandmother's permission.

we (the father and I) miss the daughter who passed and need to keep connected to the granddaughter.

what are are rights?

"What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by sheila4950

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho/Oregon

we (grandfather and step-grandmother) live in fruitland ID
Grandmother (ex of grandfather) lives with child in Ontario OR

just across the snake river

daughter died in january 2009. leaving 5 year old granddaughter. on final day of daughter's life, while everyone was gathered at the hospital, I (step grandmother) suggested we call an attorney (i'm the level headed, non-emotional one). the grandmother jumps up and says "what for?", there is nothing to leave in a will. my response is to remind everyone that there is a 5 years old girl who will need raising and knowing that the family does not want the father involved, to protect their rights, a guardian must be appointed.

well, the grandmother jumps up,says she already has the paperwork (unsigned) and proceeds to contact the hospital to get a notary to have the mother (on her deathbed) sign papers giving custody to her.

now, that is not a problem until after the daughter passes. the grandmother now has custody and is playing "power" with the granddaughter. as the other set of grandparents (the father of the daughter who passed away), we have to beg to get the granddaughter for a visit. we are not allowed to talk to her on the phone nor see her without the grandmother's permission.

we (the father and I) miss the daughter who passed and need to keep connected to the granddaughter.

what are are rights?

"What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

First, she can notarize her left toe with God's signature and it's still not a binding custody arrangement - that can only be done in Court.

But where is the child's father? Did he consent?

Why is Dad excluded?

(assuming he is legally Dad, and that his rights haven't been terminated, he would generally be first in line for custody - not the grandparents)

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Dogmatique

First, she can notarize her left toe with God's signature and it's still not a binding custody arrangement - that can only be done in Court.

But where is the child's father?

Agreed - seems to me that the father is first in line...

[Blue Meanie]

Originally Posted by sheila4950

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho/Oregon

we (grandfather and step-grandmother) live in fruitland ID
Grandmother (ex of grandfather) lives with child in Ontario OR

just across the snake river

daughter died in january 2009. leaving 5 year old granddaughter. on final day of daughter's life, while everyone was gathered at the hospital, I (step grandmother) suggested we call an attorney (i'm the level headed, non-emotional one). the grandmother jumps up and says "what for?", there is nothing to leave in a will. my response is to remind everyone that there is a 5 years old girl who will need raising and knowing that the family does not want the father involved, to protect their rights, a guardian must be appointed.

well, the grandmother jumps up,says she already has the paperwork (unsigned) and proceeds to contact the hospital to get a notary to have the mother (on her deathbed) sign papers giving custody to her.

now, that is not a problem until after the daughter passes. the grandmother now has custody and is playing "power" with the granddaughter. as the other set of grandparents (the father of the daughter who passed away), we have to beg to get the granddaughter for a visit. we are not allowed to talk to her on the phone nor see her without the grandmother's permission.

we (the father and I) miss the daughter who passed and need to keep connected to the granddaughter.

what are are rights?

"What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

You have no legal standing to sue for visitation. And had you not overstepped your boundaries at that incredibly painful time for the parents of the deceased, perhaps Grandmother would not be so adversarial in her dealings with Grandfather.

What kind of relationship did Grandfather have with this child before the mother died? Does your hubby have 20 or 30K to spend on an attorney to sue for visitation?

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Agreed - seems to me that the father is first in line...

Am I reading this the wrong way? It sounds like Gran-with-notarized-toe has actually done something very very naughty if this has transpired without Dad's knowledge and consent.

Then again, we need to find out where Dad actually is..

This is the part which really concerns me:

my response is to remind everyone that there is a 5 years old girl who will need raising and knowing that the family does not want the father involved, to protect their rights, a guardian must be appointed.

Exactly who decided that Dad isn't involved? When? And on what grounds?

[sheila4950]

the daughter had cancer for 5 years, left her husband when she learned she had cancer and took daughter with her. the family says "he left her when he found out she had cancer" but she's the one who moved out while he was at work. he was in the service and still is as far as i know.

anyway, the family did not want him to know she was continuing to struggle with cancer as they were concerned he would take his daughter if he found out the mother could not take care of her due to her illness.

He never got visitation. and only learned that the mother (his wife) had passed by reading it in the newspaper obituary. (the mother would have lost her medical benefits from the govenment if she had been divorced so she stayed married to him)

[sheila4950]

i have worked with dying people most of my life (heath care) and the families. I find most people are not making good decisions when their emotions are running amok (like the during the last breaths of their loved ones). so being level headed and making sound suggestions like making sure custody deisions have been made to protect the family rights is just what the family needed to hear.

the child's father showed up at the front door of the grandmother's home the day after the death (with police). without that notarized and signed custody paperwork, he was fully right in taking his daughter that night.

my suggestion protected the family from losing the grandchild.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by sheila4950

the daughter had cancer for 5 years, left her husband when she learned she had cancer and took daughter with her. the family says "he left her when he found out she had cancer" but she's the one who moved out while he was at work. he was in the service and still is as far as i know.

anyway, the family did not want him to know she was continuing to struggle with cancer as they were concerned he would take his daughter if he found out the mother could not take care of her due to her illness.

He never got visitation. and only learned that the mother (his wife) had passed by reading it in the newspaper obituary. (the mother would have lost her medical benefits from the govenment if she had been divorced so she stayed married to him)

They are still married?!!! SERIOUSLY?!

Then Dad has custody. The grandmother had absolutely NO right to take the child without Dad's consent - they can hate Dad with every atom in their bodies and it still doesn't mean they can trample over his rights as father. NOBODY gets to exclude Dad without a court order. Nobody.

(humor me in case I'm reading something that isn't there - at the time of her death Mom and Dad were still married? And Grandmother took the child WITHOUT Dad's consent?)

[Antigone*of*Greece]

Originally Posted by sheila4950

the daughter had cancer for 5 years, left her husband when she learned she had cancer and took daughter with her. the family says "he left her when he found out she had cancer" but she's the one who moved out while he was at work. he was in the service and still is as far as i know.

anyway, the family did not want him to know she was continuing to struggle with cancer as they were concerned he would take his daughter if he found out the mother could not take care of her due to her illness.

He never got visitation. and only learned that the mother (his wife) had passed by reading it in the newspaper obituary. (the mother would have lost her medical benefits from the govenment if she had been divorced so she stayed married to him)

Has the child's father attempted contact with his daughter. It would seem to me that the ball is in court and he could/should take action as he sees fit.

I'd have to say that your step-daughter's behaviour prior to death was utterly selfish, self-centered and unkind to her daughter and her husband.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by sheila4950

i have worked with dying people most of my life (heath care) and the families. I find most people are not making good decisions when their emotions are running amok (like the during the last breaths of their loved ones). so being level headed and making sound suggestions like making sure custody deisions have been made to protect the family rights is just what the family needed to hear.

the child's father showed up at the front door of the grandmother's home the day after the death (with police). without that notarized and signed custody paperwork, he was fully right in taking his daughter that night.

my suggestion protected the family from losing the grandchild.

Dad has the right anyway. He doesn't NEED a notarized piece of paper. The grandparents have no rights to that child at all. None.

Being level headed does NOT mean usurping Dad's rights to his child. It means doing things the right way. There was never any question of custody - Dad is alive, was still married to Mom, and is that child's legal parent. He has custody until a court decides otherwise - not the whims of the grandparents.

Again, unless that paper is a court order, it is meaningless.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by Wirelessany1

Has the child's father attempted contact with his daughter. It would seem to me that the ball is in court and he could/should take action as he sees fit.

I'd have to say that your step-daughter's behaviour prior to death was utterly selfish, self-centered and unkind to her daughter and her husband.

I'm seriously hoping and praying that OP is going to correct me, and that I'm misunderstanding.

I really hope I'm missing something. Because otherwise? This is appalling.

And the really tragic part? Dad has just been given a perfect reason to ensure none of the grandparents ever see the child again.

[>Charlotte<]

Originally Posted by sheila4950

my response is to remind everyone that there is a 5 years old girl who will need raising and knowing that the family does not want the father involved, to protect their rights, a guardian must be appointed.

Where do you, your husband, the grandmother, or anybody else get off deciding a "guardian must be appointed"? The child doesn't need a guardian, she has a father. It doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference if the family "doesn't want the father involved" or not.

If the father is somehow unfit to raise this child (and that's according to legal standards, not yours) there are ways to go about helping the child, but right now you and everybody else are way out of line.

[Antigone*of*Greece]

Originally Posted by >Charlotte<

Where do you, your husband, the grandmother, or anybody else get off deciding a "guardian must be appointed"? The child doesn't need a guardian, she has a father. It doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference if the family "doesn't want the father involved" or not.

If the father is somehow unfit to raise this child (and that's according to legal standards, not yours) there are ways to go about helping the child, but right now you and everybody else are way out of line.

There is no wondering about the apple falling far from the tree with this one. It is very clear that daughter is her mother & father's daughter


So so so sad for that little one

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by >Charlotte<

Where do you, your husband, the grandmother, or anybody else get off deciding a "guardian must be appointed"? The child doesn't need a guardian, she has a father. It doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference if the family "doesn't want the father involved" or not.

If the father is somehow unfit to raise this child (and that's according to legal standards, not yours) there are ways to go about helping the child, but right now you and everybody else are way out of line.

Charlotte, out of curiosity could Dad bring charges against the grandparents?

[>Charlotte<]

Originally Posted by Dogmatique

Charlotte, out of curiosity could Dad bring charges against the grandparents?

Well, it sounds to me like Dad is completely ignorant of his rights and whomever has the child has the father's consent (for now). Unless he doesn't know where the child is, or who she's with. Honestly, I'm not so sure Dad wants the child if he's putting up with this bull****. Maybe he thinks that piece of paper actually means something. Once he finds out otherwise, everyone will be in for a very rude awakening.

If they're purposefully keeping the child from him? You're dang right, he could, and should "charge". He should charge right through that front door and get his kid with hardly a fare-thee-well.

In any case, we have a bunch of people playing keep-away with a five year old little girl. Appalling.