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Grandparents threatening to sue

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

Last year my ex filed for paternity and parenting time. We were never married. My ex has a severe drinking problem and we mutually agreed to supervised visitation until his drinking was under control (which has still not happened). Our daughter will be five in August.

At the time of the court case it was apparent that he didn't really care to have paternity established, but that his mother was interested in suing me for grandparenting time (by apparent, I mean that gma TOLD me this).

The paternal grandparents are welcomed to visit my daughter while she is at their other son's (my daughter's uncle) visiting her twin cousins who are the same age. The other son lives about four miles down the same road. They refused to see any of the grandchildren this way because they want them at their house and without their parents. The paternal grandparents are invited to all dance recitals, t-ball games etc.. The paternal grandparents have never once asked me for a specific time that they could have me or my daughter over as a guest. There is a very long story involving the paternal gma and how she has blantantly disrespected every rule her grandchildrens' parents have set.

Long story short...I told them to see my daughter on her dad's time. Daddy doesn't take very much time because he has a severe drinking problem and he knows he can't utilize his parenting while time intoxicated. Daddy doesn't want his parents to have a court-ordered visitation schedule and neither do I. I received a letter from their lawyer today stating that if I didn't agree to let them visit my daughter under their terms then I would be taken to court soon. I talked to paternal grandpa today and he is under the impression that they have rights and this will be an open and shut case. My daughter is not close with either one of them, and has no strong bonds to them.

What will happen here if I file this letter from their lawyer in my trash can and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine?
 


justalayman

Senior Member
here is a good article on the grandparents visitation law in Michigan. Since you state the father of the child also does not want the g parents to have court ordered visitation, this excerpt should be especially important to you:

The Grandparent Visitation Law does set forth a provision that if two fit parents, which does not include a step-parent, sign an affidavit opposing the grandparent visitation request, then the court shall dismiss a grandparent's request for such visitation.
Michigan Grandparent Visitation Law — DivorceNet
 
Since he has to have supervised visitations because of his drinking, does that make him "unfit" and therefore not entitled to the decision? I have 100% physical and we share 50/50 legal custody.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
that is a good question. It might or at least it would be an arguable point.

even without the affidavit from both parents, based on what you have said, this is surely not a sure thing for the g-parents. One other point that article made was a g-parent had a right to seek an order if they are denied visitation. It does not appear you have done so as no specific visitation has been requested by the g-parents and you have not made an effort to restrict the g-parents from seeing the child at other times that she would be available to them.

What will happen here if I file this letter from their lawyer in my trash can and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine?
that would be counterproductive to your cause. That statement could be seen as a denial of visitation. I know, you didn't mean it literally but it does make a point. If you tossed the letter, I suspect you will end up in court, which if I were you, is exactly where I would want it to be. That way a court will review the demand and rule on it. The court will also order the times for visitation (if granted). You will have the opportunity to give your side of the story as well.

In other words: it will not be g-ma or her attorney bullying you. It will be the court making the decision after hearing both sides of the situation. I would suggest you sober up dad and have him standing beside you in court so you will be seen as a joint force against the visitation order, even if he has some problems.
 
Would testimony from third parties be heard in this kind of court case? For example, would they listen to why their other son and wife will not allow them to have their children? Would they listen to testimony that the grandfather elicits sex from women on a swinger's website etc?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Would testimony from third parties be heard in this kind of court case? For example, would they listen to why their other son and wife will not allow them to have their children? Would they listen to testimony that the grandfather elicits sex from women on a swinger's website etc?


Even if they do, what grandpa is doing isn't necessarily illegal.

Quick question.

What are Dad's current visitation orders? Is it actually spelled out that they must be supervised or is that an informal agreement?
 
The visits must be supervised. The supervisors are myself, his brother and his sister-in-law. He has the ability to see her several times a week if he chooses.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Would testimony from third parties be heard in this kind of court case? For example, would they listen to why their other son and wife will not allow them to have their children? Would they listen to testimony that the grandfather elicits sex from women on a swinger's website etc?
If the other son and his wife are willing to testify, that would be helpful.

However, the conditions for gpv have seriously tightened since DeRose vs DeRose and these grandparents do NOT have much of a chance of prevailing. They have no longstanding relationship with the child that would have a negative impact on the child if it were disrupted.

Therefore grandpa is living in fantasyland if he thinks its an open and shut case.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
The grandparent who is requesting visitation has the burden to show the court by a preponderance of evidence, which is 51% or more, that the parent's decision to deny visitation to the grandparent does indeed create harm, either mentally, physically or emotionally, to the health of the minor child.
You've stated that they really don't have a relationship with them. Have they EVER had a decent relationship?

An answer might be to reiterate that they can visit with the child when he/she is over at the cousin's home. Basically, you are stating that YOU are NOT denying visits; it is they who are CHOOSING to not visit.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
Michigan law also provides criteria for determining the best interest of the child, including the emotional ties between grandparent and grandchild, the prior relationship, the grandparent's "moral fitness," the grandparent's physical and mental health, any history of abuse of any child by the grandparent and any other factors affecting the child's well-being. In addition, the court must consider the effect on the child of any hostility existing between grandparent and parent and the willingness of the grandparent to support the parent-child relationship.
more reading here:
http://courts.co.calhoun.mi.us/quest079.htm

A party having legal custody may file an opposing affidavit.
Make sure that you BOTH file this affidavit if served.
 

BL

Senior Member
I received a letter from their lawyer today stating that if I didn't agree to let them visit my daughter under their terms then I would be taken to court soon
Baloney ... Typical letter writing from an attorney being paid .

Don't let the threats get to you .

Let them spend a good deal of money on a lawyer to file for visits on their terms .

Doesn't mean they will prevail.

As was said , respond to the attorney's letter with what you have already offered ,in writing .
 
I have talked to this lawyer myself in the past. He treated me like I was an idiot but I soon made him eat his words (mostly in thanks to the knowledge I've gained here!). I thought this letter was just a smoke blowing apparatus. It states "there are grandparenting statutes for the State of Michigan," but he gives no detail to which statutes he is referring.

I also have the grandfather's family backing me. His sister has a tape recording of him admitting to molesting two of his sisters and his brother. I don't know if the tape is real as I haven't heard it. She is willing to let us listen to it and use it in court if it would be heard. I don't know if the court would allow that, or would consider it hearsay.

As far as the grandparents' "moral fitness" as referred to in the Michigan law, does the fact that I don't agree with their values and morals have add any weight to my argument?
 
You've stated that they really don't have a relationship with them. Have they EVER had a decent relationship?

An answer might be to reiterate that they can visit with the child when he/she is over at the cousin's home. Basically, you are stating that YOU are NOT denying visits; it is they who are CHOOSING to not visit.
My daughter doesn't HATE them or anything. She is rather indifferent to them actually. She doesn't ask to see them. All three of the grandkids get annoyed with their grandma within minutes of seeing her because she doesn't stop mauling them. The grandfather told me today that seeing my daughter at her cousins' house wasn't good enough because he wanted her to play with him instead of with her cousins. ?!?!?!?!?!
 
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