Mother-in-law threatening to sue for grandparent rights in Ohio

[jonesmr0208]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My husband and I have 2 boys together(ages 6 & 4), he has a daughter from a previous relationship (age 7, and we have regular visitation/shared parenting with BM) and we recently became the legal guardians to our niece and nephew (his sister's children, ages 7 & 6). The only person who has "visitation rights" with the latter two of the children is the father/stepfather of our niece and nephew.

Recently, my mother-in-law has been making threats to take my husband and I to court to implement grand parenting rights with ALL of the children. We have cut off all ties to communication to my mother-in-law which includes blocking any phone/text attempts and some social media. The reasoning behind this is that the MIL is unstable, unemployed, and verbally abusive to my husband and I. She never finished high school, attained or even attempted to get her GED, and has never held a job for more than 6 months at a time. I don't believe she has ever had a place of her own as she has always stayed on the couch or bed of some guy friend or another. She is an alcoholic drug user to boot. I'm not saying these things to be mean. They are all true and substantiated. She has been to jail many times since I've been married to my husband. Oh, and to top it off, she literally kidnapped my husband when he was 13 and tried to smuggle him into Canada (she did not have custody of him). Again, this is all fact. It was on the news and everything. Even my lawyer knows about her kidnapping.

My husband and I used to let my MIL see our children (our two boys). In fact, she would help watch them for us while we both worked. I know that may not have been the best idea given her past, but we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and give her a second chance since she seemed cleaned up. After a few weeks she reverted back to her old ways. We had some alcohol in a cabinet, which we never drink, and the bottles were mysteriously becoming empty. She even ADMITTED to drinking some of my husband's beer while watching my children! After this we basically told her she was never allowed to watch our children or even be around them alone anymore.

After this she would constantly call and text both of our phones, leaving drunken and rambling phone messages about how we better let her see her grandbabies. Things got worse once we got my husband's sister's kids. MIL demanded that we allow her to see those two explicitly as she basically raised them. This is not true given that it would have been impossible since the children were in North Dakota during most of this time. Even the kid's mom denied her visitation with them when she was in Ohio. So, to battle constant harassing phone calls and texts, we blocked her. Unfortunately, she still has my good friend's number and constantly sends messages to her for her to forward to us. This is how I know about her threat to take us to court.

Normally, I wouldn't worry. The only thing that makes me hesitate is that she says she has her record expunged and that her past can no longer be held against her. She also seems to have money at her disposal now since she is now living with a man who has some. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know whether I should be worried or hope she's just making empty threats. Also, after taking on an extra two kids and racking up an outrageous attorney bill to get my niece and nephew in the first place, we do not have the funds to hire our attorney for this matter.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[AnonUserName]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My husband and I have 2 boys together(ages 6 & 4), he has a daughter from a previous relationship (age 7, and we have regular visitation/shared parenting with BM) and we recently became the legal guardians to our niece and nephew (his sister's children, ages 7 & 6). The only person who has "visitation rights" with the latter two of the children is the father/stepfather of our niece and nephew.

Recently, my mother-in-law has been making threats to take my husband and I to court to implement grand parenting rights with ALL of the children. We have cut off all ties to communication to my mother-in-law which includes blocking any phone/text attempts and some social media. The reasoning behind this is that the MIL is unstable, unemployed, and verbally abusive to my husband and I. She never finished high school, attained or even attempted to get her GED, and has never held a job for more than 6 months at a time. I don't believe she has ever had a place of her own as she has always stayed on the couch or bed of some guy friend or another. She is an alcoholic drug user to boot. I'm not saying these things to be mean. They are all true and substantiated. She has been to jail many times since I've been married to my husband. Oh, and to top it off, she literally kidnapped my husband when he was 13 and tried to smuggle him into Canada (she did not have custody of him). Again, this is all fact. It was on the news and everything. Even my lawyer knows about her kidnapping.

My husband and I used to let my MIL see our children (our two boys). In fact, she would help watch them for us while we both worked. I know that may not have been the best idea given her past, but we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and give her a second chance since she seemed cleaned up. After a few weeks she reverted back to her old ways. We had some alcohol in a cabinet, which we never drink, and the bottles were mysteriously becoming empty. She even ADMITTED to drinking some of my husband's beer while watching my children! After this we basically told her she was never allowed to watch our children or even be around them alone anymore.

After this she would constantly call and text both of our phones, leaving drunken and rambling phone messages about how we better let her see her grandbabies. Things got worse once we got my husband's sister's kids. MIL demanded that we allow her to see those two explicitly as she basically raised them. This is not true given that it would have been impossible since the children were in North Dakota during most of this time. Even the kid's mom denied her visitation with them when she was in Ohio. So, to battle constant harassing phone calls and texts, we blocked her. Unfortunately, she still has my good friend's number and constantly sends messages to her for her to forward to us. This is how I know about her threat to take us to court.

Normally, I wouldn't worry. The only thing that makes me hesitate is that she says she has her record expunged and that her past can no longer be held against her. She also seems to have money at her disposal now since she is now living with a man who has some. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know whether I should be worried or hope she's just making empty threats. Also, after taking on an extra two kids and racking up an outrageous attorney bill to get my niece and nephew in the first place, we do not have the funds to hire our attorney for this matter.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

My first bit of advice is to edit your post where you reference your step kids mom as BM, it's disrespectful to her.

Moving on, yes legally your Mother in law can file for visitation but as I read the statutes it sounds like only for husbands child and possibly your niece and nephew. There is a poster that is an attorney in OH and can advise you better than I can.

If it goes to court, a lot of the stuff you posted doesn't matter. The courts could care less about Her love life, education level, or work history. Focus on what only applies to the children.

Lastly, get an attorney if she files, I cannot stress that enough.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My husband and I have 2 boys together(ages 6 & 4), he has a daughter from a previous relationship (age 7, and we have regular visitation/shared parenting with BM) and we recently became the legal guardians to our niece and nephew (his sister's children, ages 7 & 6). The only person who has "visitation rights" with the latter two of the children is the father/stepfather of our niece and nephew.

Recently, my mother-in-law has been making threats to take my husband and I to court to implement grand parenting rights with ALL of the children. We have cut off all ties to communication to my mother-in-law which includes blocking any phone/text attempts and some social media. The reasoning behind this is that the MIL is unstable, unemployed, and verbally abusive to my husband and I. She never finished high school, attained or even attempted to get her GED, and has never held a job for more than 6 months at a time. I don't believe she has ever had a place of her own as she has always stayed on the couch or bed of some guy friend or another. She is an alcoholic drug user to boot. I'm not saying these things to be mean. They are all true and substantiated. She has been to jail many times since I've been married to my husband. Oh, and to top it off, she literally kidnapped my husband when he was 13 and tried to smuggle him into Canada (she did not have custody of him). Again, this is all fact. It was on the news and everything. Even my lawyer knows about her kidnapping.

My husband and I used to let my MIL see our children (our two boys). In fact, she would help watch them for us while we both worked. I know that may not have been the best idea given her past, but we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and give her a second chance since she seemed cleaned up. After a few weeks she reverted back to her old ways. We had some alcohol in a cabinet, which we never drink, and the bottles were mysteriously becoming empty. She even ADMITTED to drinking some of my husband's beer while watching my children! After this we basically told her she was never allowed to watch our children or even be around them alone anymore.

After this she would constantly call and text both of our phones, leaving drunken and rambling phone messages about how we better let her see her grandbabies. Things got worse once we got my husband's sister's kids. MIL demanded that we allow her to see those two explicitly as she basically raised them. This is not true given that it would have been impossible since the children were in North Dakota during most of this time. Even the kid's mom denied her visitation with them when she was in Ohio. So, to battle constant harassing phone calls and texts, we blocked her. Unfortunately, she still has my good friend's number and constantly sends messages to her for her to forward to us. This is how I know about her threat to take us to court.

Normally, I wouldn't worry. The only thing that makes me hesitate is that she says she has her record expunged and that her past can no longer be held against her. She also seems to have money at her disposal now since she is now living with a man who has some. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know whether I should be worried or hope she's just making empty threats. Also, after taking on an extra two kids and racking up an outrageous attorney bill to get my niece and nephew in the first place, we do not have the funds to hire our attorney for this matter.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

This is a bit complicated. In order to sue for grandparent visitation rights she has to have "standing" first. Once its determined she has standing, then best interests come into play.

She does not have standing to sue for visitation of your two mutual children because they are living in an intact family.

She does have standing to sue for visitation of your stepdaughter, because her parents are divorced. However she would have to sue both your husband and the child's mother.

She also has standing to sue for visitation of the niece and nephew because they are not in the custody of their parents.

So, two of the children are safe from any gpv, 3 are not.

Once standing has been determined best interests come into play. The Ohio best interest standards are as follows:

the wishes and concerns of the child’s parents;
the prior interaction and interrelationships of the child with parents and other relatives;
the location of the grandparent’s residence and the distance between it and the child’s residence;
the child’s and parents’ time availability;
the child’s age(s);
the child’s adjustment to home, school, and community;
the wishes of the child if the court has interviewed the child;
the health and safety of the child;
the amount of time the child has available to spend with siblings;
the mental and physical health of all the parties;
and whether the person seeking visitation has been convicted of or plead guilty to any criminal offense involving an act that resulted in a child being abused or neglected.

You don't have to have an attorney to fight a gpv suit. Its easier with one, particularly if the grandparent has one, but it can be done without one. Some key points:

1) Fight hard against any temporary orders, make a point to the judge that temp orders would be a violation of your right to due process.
2) Never agree to anything in mediation. Make the judge rule on the case on its merits.
3) In your very first response to any suit make sure that you ask the judge to dismiss your two children from the case as they are part of an intact family.
4) Make sure that all of the other parent/people with visitation rights to the other children agree with you that they don't want grandma having visitation, and make that part of your first response as well.
5) Contradict any falsehoods (ie she raised the niece and nephew when they lived most of their lives in North Dakota.

 

[LdiJ]

My first bit of advice is to edit your post where you reference your step kids mom as BM, it's disrespectful to her.

Moving on, yes legally your Mother in law can file for visitation but as I read the statutes it sounds like only for husbands child and possibly your niece and nephew. There is a poster that is an attorney in OH and can advise you better than I can.

If it goes to court, a lot of the stuff you posted doesn't matter. The courts could care less about Her love life, education level, or work history. Focus on what only applies to the children.

Lastly, get an attorney if she files, I cannot stress that enough.

Re the bolded: A lot of that wouldn't matter in a parent vs parent case. However this is not a parent vs parent case and the standards are different. The parent's/guardians wishes, and the reasons for their wishes DO matter.

 

[AnonUserName]

Re the bolded: A lot of that wouldn't matter in a parent vs parent case. However this is not a parent vs parent case and the standards are different. The parent's/guardians wishes, and the reasons for their wishes DO matter.

To clarify for the OP, That bit of advice strictly came from my personal experience with my gp suit which was in a different state and may not apply to you. the depth of evidence and testimony a judge wants to hear could vary from state to state and even from judge to judge. Just another reason to get an attorney!!

 

[Just Blue]

We do have an Ohio Attorney on this site. I will PM this thread to her.

 

[single317dad]

Second the motion to remove the derogatory abbreviation from your post. If you've been to certain adoption sites, that's standard shorthand and perfectly acceptable. Around here, we try to deal with legalities only and not someone's dismissive opinion of a legal parent.

To address your questions:

What proof do you have of the mother-in-law's alcohol and drug abuse?
What was she arrested for?
What were the outcomes of those cases?
Do you have certified copies of any or all of the arrest reports and court records for those cases?

 

[LdiJ]

Second the motion to remove the derogatory abbreviation from your post. If you've been to certain adoption sites, that's standard shorthand and perfectly acceptable. Around here, we try to deal with legalities only and not someone's dismissive opinion of a legal parent.

To address your questions:

What proof do you have of the mother-in-law's alcohol and drug abuse?
What was she arrested for?
What were the outcomes of those cases?
Do you have certified copies of any or all of the arrest reports and court records for those cases?

Singled317dad, this isn't someone's dismissive opinion of a legal PARENT. This is a third party case with different standards. The parent's/guardian's opinions actually matter. They are not controlling because there are other best interest standards, but they do matter. Particularly if both parents are in agreement. The parents don't necessarily have to prove the grandparent unfit. In fact, the burden of proof is not on them at all. The burden of proof is on the grandparent to show that the children will suffer harm if they do not have regular, unsupervised access to the grandparent.

 

[AnonUserName]

Singled317dad, this isn't someone's dismissive opinion of a legal PARENT. This is a third party case with different standards. The parent's/guardian's opinions actually matter. They are not controlling because there are other best interest standards, but they do matter. Particularly if both parents are in agreement. The parents don't necessarily have to prove the grandparent unfit. In fact, the burden of proof is not on them at all. The burden of proof is on the grandparent to show that the children will suffer harm if they do not have regular, unsupervised access to the grandparent.

I know in some states the grandparents have to prove harm by not having access to the grandchild but the more I read regarding Ohio, the standard seems to best interest of the child alone.

I'm sure Ohiogal will be able to clarify.

 

[Ohiogal]

This is a bit complicated. In order to sue for grandparent visitation rights she has to have "standing" first. Once its determined she has standing, then best interests come into play.

She does not have standing to sue for visitation of your two mutual children because they are living in an intact family.

She does have standing to sue for visitation of your stepdaughter, because her parents are divorced. However she would have to sue both your husband and the child's mother.

She also has standing to sue for visitation of the niece and nephew because they are not in the custody of their parents.

So, two of the children are safe from any gpv, 3 are not.

Once standing has been determined best interests come into play. The Ohio best interest standards are as follows:

the wishes and concerns of the child’s parents;
the prior interaction and interrelationships of the child with parents and other relatives;
the location of the grandparent’s residence and the distance between it and the child’s residence;
the child’s and parents’ time availability;
the child’s age(s);
the child’s adjustment to home, school, and community;
the wishes of the child if the court has interviewed the child;
the health and safety of the child;
the amount of time the child has available to spend with siblings;
the mental and physical health of all the parties;
and whether the person seeking visitation has been convicted of or plead guilty to any criminal offense involving an act that resulted in a child being abused or neglected.

You don't have to have an attorney to fight a gpv suit. Its easier with one, particularly if the grandparent has one, but it can be done without one. Some key points:

1) Fight hard against any temporary orders, make a point to the judge that temp orders would be a violation of your right to due process.
2) Never agree to anything in mediation. Make the judge rule on the case on its merits.
3) In your very first response to any suit make sure that you ask the judge to dismiss your two children from the case as they are part of an intact family.
4) Make sure that all of the other parent/people with visitation rights to the other children agree with you that they don't want grandma having visitation, and make that part of your first response as well.
5) Contradict any falsehoods (ie she raised the niece and nephew when they lived most of their lives in North Dakota.

LD, you are wrong. grandma has standing to sue for custody of any of the children who are not living in a home with their LEGAL parents AND those legal parents are not CURRENTLY married. She COULD have standing to sue for visitation for the children who ARE living in an intact family. It's OHIO and I have seen it. Care to argue? Because I will win this one.

 

[Ohiogal]

Re the bolded: A lot of that wouldn't matter in a parent vs parent case. However this is not a parent vs parent case and the standards are different. The parent's/guardians wishes, and the reasons for their wishes DO matter.

They are TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. That is different than controlling in Ohio.

 

[Ohiogal]

Singled317dad, this isn't someone's dismissive opinion of a legal PARENT. This is a third party case with different standards. The parent's/guardian's opinions actually matter. They are not controlling because there are other best interest standards, but they do matter. Particularly if both parents are in agreement. The parents don't necessarily have to prove the grandparent unfit. In fact, the burden of proof is not on them at all. The burden of proof is on the grandparent to show that the children will suffer harm if they do not have regular, unsupervised access to the grandparent.

I can agree with this. IN RE PERALES.

 

[Ohiogal]

I know in some states the grandparents have to prove harm by not having access to the grandchild but the more I read regarding Ohio, the standard seems to best interest of the child alone.

I'm sure Ohiogal will be able to clarify.

You are wrong quite frankly. It is NOT best interest alone. While the grandparents have standing to sue for visitation they have to prove harm that would result from not having contact.

 

[LdiJ]

LD, you are wrong. grandma has standing to sue for custody of any of the children who are not living in a home with their LEGAL parents AND those legal parents are not CURRENTLY married. She COULD have standing to sue for visitation for the children who ARE living in an intact family. It's OHIO and I have seen it. Care to argue? Because I will win this one.

OG Pound sand and prove that grandma has standing to sue for visitation of children who live in an intact family...prove it with case law that is on point and that anyone can access...and in a case where CPS (and I know that you call it something else in OH, but I cannot remember the acronym.) is not involved.

The freaking OH statues don't allow a gp to sue for visitation when its an intact family and social services are not involved, so why in the freaking heck would you even go there?

 

[Proserpina]

To clarify for the OP, That bit of advice strictly came from my personal experience with my gp suit which was in a different state and may not apply to you. the depth of evidence and testimony a judge wants to hear could vary from state to state and even from judge to judge. Just another reason to get an attorney!!

If it was in a different state, why even bother mentioning it?