Pushy Grandmom

[lily2467]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I have a question about grandparents rights (guess thats obvious since i'm posting here ). there is a farily long history with my husbands parents so if you need specifics let me know. the boys are now 6 and hasn't seen them in over a year. recently she has started contacting us (meaning my husband, myself and their mother). due to all of the issues we have had with them in the past he is very reluctant to respond. would they have any standing to take my husband and thier mother to court for visitation? they have threatened it in the past but never did anything about it. i know it is not an "intact family" since the parents aren't married and never were. but they are in agreement on this issue. they have joint legal custody of the boys.

[IsabellaSoriano]

Originally Posted by lily2467

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I have a question about grandparents rights (guess thats obvious since i'm posting here ). there is a farily long history with my husbands parents so if you need specifics let me know. the boys are now 6 and hasn't seen them in over a year. recently she has started contacting us (meaning my husband, myself and their mother). due to all of the issues we have had with them in the past he is very reluctant to respond. would they have any standing to take my husband and thier mother to court for visitation? they have threatened it in the past but never did anything about it. i know it is not an "intact family" since the parents aren't married and never were. but they are in agreement on this issue. they have joint legal custody of the boys.

what reason is there that mom and dad don't want grandparents to see the grandchildren?

[lily2467]

well it started with her not honoring their parents wishes when they were with her. started with little things like giving them bottles when they were switching them to cups, not major issues so they talked to her about it and she agreed to follow thier wishes. then about 2 years ago she had the boys and she said that kyle was sick in the middle of the night and she was up all night with him giving him medicine, ect. . . .their mother has told her on more then one ocassion that she wants to be called if they are sick and before she gives any medicine. the grandmom didn't understand why on earth thier mother was so upset about not being contacted, she doesn't care want time it is she wants to know when her kids are sick. at that time they decided to stop overnight visits but said they could come visit when they wanted and we would go see them. she didn't like this at all and made a big stick about it, but they held their ground. she would come see them here and there and we would try to make plans with them. but they would pull out at the last minnute or e-mail me on a friday and just state that she was coming to see them on saturday. my husband and i would do our best to rearrange our plans. (the boys mother deals with her as little as possible, she says horrible nasty things about her and is just impossible to deal with. so obviously my husband and i would try to have her see them when they were with us). it got to the point that i told her if she wanted to come visit or we made plans she would need to let me know thursday at the lastest so we could plan our time with them. that just started a whole mess of nasty, hurtful e-mails. saying things like, "Look we have allowed you and (boys mother) a leash with these boys despite all the bad things because you decided to stand on your own. . . . " just tons of accusations, threats, demands, ect. finally they just cut off communication because she was just too unstable and they didn't want that around the boys.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by lily2467

well it started with her not honoring their parents wishes when they were with her. started with little things like giving them bottles when they were switching them to cups, not major issues so they talked to her about it and she agreed to follow thier wishes. then about 2 years ago she had the boys and she said that kyle was sick in the middle of the night and she was up all night with him giving him medicine, ect. . . .their mother has told her on more then one ocassion that she wants to be called if they are sick and before she gives any medicine. the grandmom didn't understand why on earth thier mother was so upset about not being contacted, she doesn't care want time it is she wants to know when her kids are sick. at that time they decided to stop overnight visits but said they could come visit when they wanted and we would go see them. she didn't like this at all and made a big stick about it, but they held their ground. she would come see them here and there and we would try to make plans with them. but they would pull out at the last minnute or e-mail me on a friday and just state that she was coming to see them on saturday. my husband and i would do our best to rearrange our plans. (the boys mother deals with her as little as possible, she says horrible nasty things about her and is just impossible to deal with. so obviously my husband and i would try to have her see them when they were with us). it got to the point that i told her if she wanted to come visit or we made plans she would need to let me know thursday at the lastest so we could plan our time with them. that just started a whole mess of nasty, hurtful e-mails. saying things like, "Look we have allowed you and (boys mother) a leash with these boys despite all the bad things because you decided to stand on your own. . . . " just tons of accusations, threats, demands, ect. finally they just cut off communication because she was just too unstable and they didn't want that around the boys.

Case law in NJ is fairly favorable towards parents. If both parents are united in their opposition to gpv grandma would not have a strong chance of winning.

However, grandma very will could drag them through a court case and probably mediation as well. The key is to stand their ground and refuse to settle, and force the judge to decide the case based on its merits.

In addition, should it come to a court case, I would encourage your husband to point out that the children's time is already divided between two households, and that any further attempt to carve up the children's time would not be in their best interest.

[lily2467]

thanks for your advice. after we stopped the overnight visits we would still let her take them for the day. but then she would say inapporpriate things (badmouthing thier mother, ect.) and that was when we were around. so we stopped letting her take them and made sure one of us was always present. and that made her even more angry, but we told her we can't have her saying those kinds of things around the kids. we explained to her about them being split between two households and she doesn't care. my husband tried to stress with her that he is sharing his tme with the kids with her and thats why he needed to know in advance when they were coming.

[IsabellaSoriano]

Originally Posted by lily2467

thanks for your advice. after we stopped the overnight visits we would still let her take them for the day. but then she would say inapporpriate things (badmouthing thier mother, ect.) and that was when we were around. so we stopped letting her take them and made sure one of us was always present. and that made her even more angry, but we told her we can't have her saying those kinds of things around the kids. we explained to her about them being split between two households and she doesn't care. my husband tried to stress with her that he is sharing his tme with the kids with her and thats why he needed to know in advance when they were coming.

then definitely let mom and dad know of LD's advice. IF grandparents take it so far as to court, mom and dad need to say NO. NO. NO. NO. in mediation. force the case before a judge to decide.

[Ohiogal]

With all respect due, have you had any legal schooling or possess any legal credentials whatsoever? I ask because your no-speak responses in this forum indicate that you have neither.

And what legal credentials do you have?

Sometime ago I asked that you read the United State Supreme Court’s decision in Troxel vs. Granville. Obviously you haven’t bothered to do so.

Sax

Really? Since when did you become grand poobah of assigning homework? You have not been perfect in your postings and have given incorrect info in several of them. So Sax, why don't you take some of your own advice. Troxel is known however it is NOT the end of it. Grandparent visitation exists in many states. Florida doesn't have it but
New Jersey does. Troxel didn't outlaw it completely.

Please come back when you decide to state your own credentials.

[latigo]

Ohiogal:

If you wish to champion the rights of unqualified people to contribute their chat room sophistry and babble to this web site and by that encourage participation from others of the same ilk and help turn this site in the same direction that eventually brought down Microsoft’s Answer.com and Wondir.com, then that is certainly your prerogative!

Also, if you personally find any disagreement with any legal opinions that I express in here and wish to rebut the same, then please do so in a professional manner and with supporting authorities where possible. And not in a left handed way as you have expressed here.

Because as a professional yourself you know that this business is a continual process of learning and not only from individual research – often mind wracking research - but learning from the research and study of other professionals – occasionally to one’s chagrin.

Some are won, some are lost and others are rained out, but I’ve kept on working at this game from the day I first entered law school, which was undoubtedly before you were born.

And let me add that I have a deep abhorrence for pretentiousness, particularly when it involves this profession!

Perhaps you disagree, but it is my belief that the people that visit this site have the right to expect the contributors to possess some level of legal knowledge and not to be misled by masked guesswork.

And I don’t think that is too much to ask of them.

Sax

[IsabellaSoriano]

ahhh, i got reported

[Rushia]

Originally Posted by latigo

Ohiogal:

If you wish to champion the rights of unqualified people to contribute their chat room sophistry and babble to this web site and by that encourage participation from others of the same ilk and help turn this site in the same direction that eventually brought down Microsoft’s Answer.com and Wondir.com, then that is certainly your prerogative!

Also, if you personally find any disagreement with any legal opinions that I express in here and wish to rebut the same, then please do so in a professional manner and with supporting authorities where possible. And not in a left handed way as you have expressed here.

Because as a professional yourself you know that this business is a continual process of learning and not only from individual research – often mind wracking research - but learning from the research and study of other professionals – occasionally to one’s chagrin.

Some are won, some are lost and others are rained out, but I’ve kept on working at this game from the day I first entered law school, which was undoubtedly before you were born.

And let me add that I have a deep abhorrence for pretentiousness, particularly when it involves this profession!

Perhaps you disagree, but it is my belief that the people that visit this site have the right to expect the contributors to possess some level of legal knowledge and not to be misled by masked guesswork.

And I don’t think that is too much to ask of them.

Sax

Latigo, I am NOT a lawyer and I speak from person experience. Troxel doesn't mean doodley squat dependent on which state you are in. I'm in NY, lived thru a 3 yr gpv case. Gp's got visitation and we did use Troxel. Each state reads the case differently and makes their laws accordingly.

[janemc]

We had good state case law that was a month old when grandparents filed. Judge said it was to new. Denied our Motion to dismiss. 11 Months later 2 days before Trail GP Attorney spoke to GAL dropped case ( i know because I was billed for the call). Sometimes the Judge will allow the GP to go Forward, even whe it should be dismissed.

[Ohiogal]

Ohiogal:

If you wish to champion the rights of unqualified people to contribute their chat room sophistry and babble to this web site and by that encourage participation from others of the same ilk and help turn this site in the same direction that eventually brought down Microsoft’s Answer.com and Wondir.com, then that is certainly your prerogative!

I haven't seen anything from you that is impressive.

Also, if you personally find any disagreement with any legal opinions that I express in here and wish to rebut the same, then please do so in a professional manner and with supporting authorities where possible. And not in a left handed way as you have expressed here.

Oh and I have. Several times when you have been wrong.

Because as a professional yourself you know that this business is a continual process of learning and not only from individual research – often mind wracking research - but learning from the research and study of other professionals – occasionally to one’s chagrin.

I haven't seen where you are a professional. You are too busy going off about people being able to read or being unable to read.

Some are won, some are lost and others are rained out, but I’ve kept on working at this game from the day I first entered law school, which was undoubtedly before you were born.

So you are old. Not impressed. Just means you are more likely to die before me.

And let me add that I have a deep abhorrence for pretentiousness, particularly when it involves this profession!

Yet I don't quite see that because you act quite pretentious in your posting.

Perhaps you disagree, but it is my belief that the people that visit this site have the right to expect the contributors to possess some level of legal knowledge and not to be misled by masked guesswork.

I agree. Legal information needs passed along. But stating that Troxel is the be all and end all is misleading. Because Troxel is NOT all there is to it.

And I don’t think that is too much to ask of them.

Nor of you.

[lily2467]

did i miss something?

[IsabellaSoriano]

Originally Posted by lily2467

did i miss something?

yep. i seemed to have missed a homework assignment for failing to follow around a very old attorney somehow. no worries. he somehow went "poof". you didn't really miss much.

[lily2467]

hello again. well as i suspected she has started threatening to take us to court again. saying if we don't let her see the kids they (grandmom & grandpa) will proceed as they see fit, and file legal action. urgh, this woman is so frustrating. i had e-mailed her back after she kept saying they want to see the kids and for us to arrange this asap. i told her that her son had already replied that he is unsure of how he wants to proceed, if at all and making demands isn't going to help the matter. and that sent her off. she's threatened in the past and never has done anything, so this may all be for not, but i have some more questions if you don't mind.
the grandparents now live in pa, would that factor into whether or not they would have a case? i believe they have been there the better part of a year. also, they haven't seen the kids in about a year, would that be a factor? if it did go as far as her filing, would e-mails be allowed to be used? a majority of communication with her is done via e-mail?