Question About Grandparents Rights

[tlws]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana.

My in-laws have been threatening us for some time with getting a lawyer and getting visitation rights to our children. I would like to know what we can do to stop them and stop the harassment in the process.

My husband and I have been married since early 2008 and had our first child in late 2008. We have four children together and are not divorcing, separated, or anything of that sort. We have lived together since before we were married and our relationship and children's paternity is not an issue.

We had lived in my family home taking care of my dying grandmother with the help of my mother when we married and our first was born. My grandmother passed away shortly after her birth and, without a will, the property quickly fell into a state of disrepair and we all moved out toward the end of 2010, after the birth of our third child.

As there was an issue with our apartment right before our move in date, we stayed with my husbands' family for about a month while in-between homes. This was not a problem and the only thing that happened while we were there was our youngest daughter grabbed a bottle of medicine (Tylenol) from my purse and tried to eat them. We (both my husband and I) were in the room when it happened and we called Poison Control then rushed her to the ER. She was perfectly fine but they kept her overnight for observation "just in case" and we went home the next morning. Obviously, they reported it to Child Protective Services who came to the house and checked everything out before closing the case.

We moved in at the end of 2010 and my husband lost his job at the beginning of 2011. While he was looking for work we sold a lot of our things and paid the rent with our Income Tax money. Still, by May he had not found another place to work and we were evicted. His parents offered to let us stay with them and we had no other options at the time. I filed the paperwork for a Section 8 voucher.

My husband proceeded to get another job, but the pay was barely enough to pay for gas and diapers. It lasted three months as he was a temp and they ended his job. He worked off and on until I gave birth to our fourth child in March of this year, at which point his job laid him off two days before. We had saved money and traveled around the area for a week searching for suitable living, but all we could find was one mold-infested trailer in a small town.

We moved back in with his parents after that, as they did not know that I was pregnant when we moved in with them in May--he was overdue by two weeks--nor were they informed while we lived there. This is because they often made comments about how they couldn't handle anymore people there because their niece was staying with them and they believed she would become pregnant as she started dating.

Aside from those hostile comments, my husband and his mother and father would often argue and we did not want that around the children. While they would be good around the kids, they often ignored our parenting style and simply told the children to do as they wished. There were several occasions where if one of them was mad or upset, the children would be yelled at over nothing.

Last month we left after several disagreements. My husband told them that we were leaving and they either wanted to scream at him or ignore him altogether. Two times in the month before that his father attempted to attack him, unprovoked. His father blames it on his medication.

They have a lawyer and have been sending text messages non-stop since we left. They have been rude, threatening, and terrorizing. They have called CPS and told them we didn't feed or bathe our children, that we are druggies and have no money, no where to live. Unfortunately, we were out of state at the time and the CPS over there did not know what was going on, nor were they willing to call over to Indiana or to our local police to confirm, and they believed everything that was said about us. We passed our drug tests and proved that we can feed and bathe and clothe our children properly, though they told us they would open a case for us if we did not either move back to Indiana or get a job in the area within 10 days. (My husband still had a job but they did not believe him and were unwilling to contact the company about it.)

We have been in hiding, staying in hotels and trying to stay under the radar and away from family and friends because these people will track us down. The police in both this county and the county they live in know what is going on and have suggested time and time again to get protective orders against them for this to stop, to let them call CPS so they will write them off as crazy, etc.

They send messages, which are not replied to btw, which threaten to take us to court. They threaten to get the records from CPS to use against us. One moment they are trying to be nice and want us to come back or meet them somewhere, then threats. Yet, they told CPS that we had mental issues.

We've left their home three different times in just over a year and they always convinced my husband to come back, that he had no other choice, making him feel worthless for not being able to get a good, stable job. They treat us like absolute trash and pretend that they are better than us and we do not want them around our children. My mother-in-law specifically did this to her own sister and got custody of her children because she didn't like how they were being raised.

Calling the police and trying to find out where we are, threatening us with false calls to CPS if we don't tell them exactly where we are, it's terrifying. Even my husbands' sister joined in, sending me threats online. It never seems to stop.

The forms are filled out, but they have told us there is a good chance it will be thrown out because they are his parents. I'm sure they will lie in court to get their way and I'm so stressed about this I simply do not know what to do anymore.

Any thoughts would be great. We do not have the money for an attorney but I am going to do the paperwork tomorrow to see if we qualify for free or discounted representation.

 

[BigMouthWino]

It sounds as though your husband's parents have come to your family's rescue multiple times. For whatever the reason your family cannot maintain stable employment and housing.

Perhaps you should go thank them for all they have done for you and see if you can make the relationship better. For the sake of their children. So they can see what a stable household looks like.

 

[Proserpina]

Have they actually FILED a GPV suit?

 

[sandyclaus]

According to Indiana Law:

In Indiana, a grandparent may seek a visitation order with child only if (1) the child's parent is deceased; (2) the child's parents are divorced; or (3) the child was born out of wedlock, but only if the child's father has established paternity. I.C. § 31-17-5-1.

Based solely on this, it would seem that the grandparents have no grounds to even seek visitation at this point. Mom and dad are still alive and married.

And while it may well be that the grandparents have helped mom and dad out of several sticky financial situations, that alone does not entitle them to demand visitation with their grandchildren. Instead, that says to me that the grandparents are doing this out of some sense of entitlement that because they have provided that help, that they must be allowed to have ample access to the grandchildren whenever they want. That just isn't the case. Grandchildren are not commodities or property that go to the highest bidder.

Mom and dad, you need to put your foot down and tell the grandparents to back off - and then DO IT. Enforce your boundaries. If the grandparents continue to be overbearing, you are absolutely allowed and entitled to restrict or even deny visits with your children unless and until they modify their behavior.

 

[LdiJ]

Have they actually FILED a GPV suit?

I am pretty sure they have not as grandparents in Indiana do not have standing to file for gpv if the marriage is intact. However, they do sound like the kind of grandparents who are willing to use CPS to try to take the children away, even if it takes making false accusations to do so. Also, CPS cannot order someone to move back into a state, they do not have that kind of power (although they may attempt to make it appear that they do).

OP, here is my suggestion. Get new phone numbers and new email addresses and cancel the old ones. Move as far away from the grandparents as you can afford to move, and don't keep in contact with anyone who is in contact with them. If you can afford to move to FL or Washington state, either of those would be the best choices, as gpv is dead in both of those states.

I would NOT bother to file a restraining order...because its unlikely that you would get one. I have never seen that work no matter how much the grandparents were harassing the parents. On top of that, it gives them access to you, if only in court, or outside in the parking lot, to try to serve you with a suit, whether they have standing to file for gpv or not.

What you want is to make it so that they have no method of contacting you at all, even if it means giving up things like facebook pages. You don't want them to know where you live or have any method of contacting you. I am really sorry that it has come to this for you, but you need to protect yourselves. Also, both you and your husband need jobs working opposite shifts so that you can save up as much money as possible.

 

[Proserpina]

I am pretty sure they have not as grandparents in Indiana do not have standing to file for gpv if the marriage is intact. However, they do sound like the kind of grandparents who are willing to use CPS to try to take the children away, even if it takes making false accusations to do so. Also, CPS cannot order someone to move back into a state, they do not have that kind of power (although they may attempt to make it appear that they do).

OP, here is my suggestion. Get new phone numbers and new email addresses and cancel the old ones. Move as far away from the grandparents as you can afford to move, and don't keep in contact with anyone who is in contact with them. If you can afford to move to FL or Washington state, either of those would be the best choices, as gpv is dead in both of those states.

I would NOT bother to file a restraining order...because its unlikely that you would get one. I have never seen that work no matter how much the grandparents were harassing the parents. On top of that, it gives them access to you, if only in court, or outside in the parking lot, to try to serve you with a suit, whether they have standing to file for gpv or not.

What you want is to make it so that they have no method of contacting you at all, even if it means giving up things like facebook pages. You don't want them to know where you live or have any method of contacting you. I am really sorry that it has come to this for you, but you need to protect yourselves. Also, both you and your husband need jobs working opposite shifts so that you can save up as much money as possible.

That's what I'm afraid of, tbh. These are the type of grandparents who - even if they have no standing - would file something, anything, and do whatever they can to interfere with the OP and her family.

I completely second your advice here, LdiJ.