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refusal of emergency treatment

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ognywogny

Junior Member
From Alabama:
I no longer have health insurance and not money enough to buy it, but do have a house as an asset to protect.

I wear a medic alert necklace that says I don't have insurance, do not consent to ANY treatment or transport and will not pay any bills incurred.

Am I looking at a Supreme Court case if I get into an accident, they treat me against my wishes and try to bill me. Oh yes, and of course if I live!
 


ecmst12

Senior Member
No, you are looking at your credit being destroyed and a lein put on your house.

You can get a catastrophic insurance policy for very little money....high deductible and no coverage for ordinary care but if you were to have a catastrophic accident or illness and incur tens or hundreds of thousands of bills, your house would be safe.
 
Party on, ognywogny, party on. Hard call which I bet money is an issue(s) which has not been determined by law. My theory, is let you die. I think the current governmental theory is give things a try.

Basic theory issue. No way to tell. Anyone who says they know is a liar.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Medical ethics and law do not permit medical personnel to fail to treat an incapacitated person who is brought to the ER. This necklace OP proposes would do nothing to keep them out of hot water should they fail to treat him and his family bring a wrongful death suit, or law enforcement prosecute for criminally negligent homicide or something.
 

ognywogny

Junior Member
Well, ecmst12, I suppose if it happens its to the courts we go. For they need new law. If this country won't have universal coverage, they ought not be able to tell you you must bankrupt your family against your will!. Though I surely hope I don't have to find out.
 

lealea1005

Senior Member
Well, ecmst12, I suppose if it happens its to the courts we go. For they need new law. If this country won't have universal coverage, they ought not be able to tell you you must bankrupt your family against your will!. Though I surely hope I don't have to find out.
So, you think universal coverage = "free"? You are so wrong. :rolleyes:
 

divona2000

Senior Member
Well, ecmst12, I suppose if it happens its to the courts we go. For they need new law. If this country won't have universal coverage, they ought not be able to tell you you must bankrupt your family against your will!. Though I surely hope I don't have to find out.
Make sure you tell that to your family, so they won't lawsuit-bankrupt the Medics/ER personal that you don't want treating you.
 

ognywogny

Junior Member
Reply to lealea1005- Universal health care as a moral imperative in the richest nation in the world. I find that in the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Scriptures.

Reply to divona2000- My family is aware and my directive which I carry in my pocket is backed up by a (full size) signed, notarized copy. If EMT or ER treat me it will be clear they are providing a service EXPLICITLY refused!
 

divona2000

Senior Member
From Alabama:
I no longer have health insurance...but do have a house as an asset to protect...if I live!
Medical ethics and law do not permit medical personnel to fail to treat an incapacitated person who is brought to the ER. This necklace OP proposes would do nothing to keep them out of hot water should they fail to treat him and his family bring a wrongful death suit, or law enforcement prosecute for criminally negligent homicide or something.
...My family is aware and my directive which I carry in my pocket is backed up by a (full size) signed, notarized copy. If EMT or ER treat me it will be clear they are providing a service EXPLICITLY refused!
It won't be an asset to you if you die.

A piece of paper doesn't protect the people trying to save you.

So if you fall and break your legs, shards of bone punched through the skin, your family will just take a glance, say 'oh too bad' and wander off?
 

Isis1

Senior Member
It won't be an asset to you if you die.

A piece of paper doesn't protect the people trying to save you.

So if you fall and break your legs, shards of bone punched through the skin, your family will just take a glance, say 'oh too bad' and wander off?
well....this might happen in MY family, and i don't need a letter telling them too. :rolleyes:

OP, stop being stupid already.
 

>Charlotte<

Lurker
I think the real question here is "When they help me because they are required to, will wearing an "I'm not paying for this" sign around my neck get me out of having to pay the bill?"

Answer: It depends. On a lot of things. Your actual ability to pay, for one thing. That standard might not agree with what you think it should be.
 
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ognywogny

Junior Member
You folks are not following my reasoning here. For whatever reason I choose, financial, religious, philosophical, whatever-I should have the right to tell omnipotent moral busybodies (C. S. Lewis quote) to leave me ALONE!
 

ShyCat

Senior Member
Tough cookies. There's a price to living in a civilized society.

We have a public interest in keeping our streets, public areas, residential areas, etc. clear of injured and dying people, if for no other reason than such persons tend to impact the peace and serenity of others. There's also the bio-hazard and public safety issues to be considered. You may prefer to die, screaming in agony, in the middle of the intersection after a horrific car crash as a more cost-effective approach, but people can't just wait around for you to finish dying. Life goes on, there are appointments to keep. :rolleyes:
 
The problem is we live in the United States and not a libertarian utopia. In the United States there has been a value judgment that life is more important than property. Society does not allow a person to bleed to death on the sidewalk. For moral reasons or for practical reasons, we don't allow it on purpose.

When you are awake and aware, unless you are a danger to yourself or others, they can't touch you. But, if it is a lifesaving issue, they can stop you. Or, they wait until you can no longer object (become unconscious) and then can do what they think best. Sure, it's harder than that (think end-of-life issues like DNR), but that's pretty much the key.

Now, people have a right to be compensated for their work. They may not have a contract, but they do have the right of the value of the services supplied to you. Again, that's a societal choice.

The problem comes up, and the difficulty, what happens if you specifically object? I'd be willing to bet the court would find you would have to pay. Period. They'd have to sue you for quantum meruit (the amount of the benefit) rather then their usual and customary rate--unless there is case law or statute out there giving them right to compensation.

This is not a libertarian society and you don't get the right to choose. While "free"er then many countries, we are not completely free.

I was writing when ShyCat posted and like her's better. "[T]here are appointments to keep." Awesome.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
You folks are not following my reasoning here. For whatever reason I choose, financial, religious, philosophical, whatever-I should have the right to tell omnipotent moral busybodies (C. S. Lewis quote) to leave me ALONE!
Then you have two choices:

1.) Lobby your elected representatives for the right to die in agony on the street corner rather than be required to pay an ambulance and emergency room bill (not to mention prohibiting your survivors from suing the emergency and medical personnel for letting you die)

2.) Refuse to pay the bill , stand on principle when they take you to court, and hope that the judge sees things your way.

Until one of those two things happens, however, you and or your estate is going to be stuck for the bill as we do not, at the present time, hold life as cheaply as you desire. Even your life.
 

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