Accused of stealing based on personal account history

[Rebecca2012]

In PA:

I was pulled into an office by the audit type department of my job & questioned about procedures relating to verifying deposits etc. I was bashed for my drawer differences over my 1.5 yr employment which amounted to $457 ($100 was forced on me to take based on the "customer is always right" even though my drawer had never been short). This amount was not a daily accumulation & for the last 4 months I have had nothing. The person I spoke w/ told me they were watching my checking account & saw NSF issues in which they chalked up to a major cash flow issues. The woman finally spit it out "Why are we to not think these teller errors are really you taking the money?" I have not heard from them but I am afraid I will be fired. I have not stolen a thing & my personal life shouldnt be brought up.

I am completely aware that a bank will be looking into a teller's over/short's to be sure they have no misconduct. This is not my first teller position so I know the rules of the game and I have never heard of any place using these method's to find out if someone is violation policies. Not once in this meeting were any work related things brought up which gave them the feeling I had stolen anything to make my drawer short and they did admit to watching cameras a few times. The only source of evidence they present me was a couple of NSF things that were not at the same times as my errors. While sitting there in a state of shock at the rough tone that was used I was thinking WHAT THE HELL!!! I couldnt understand and still can not understand how my joint account having some returned (but represented & paid) items had anything to do with my job. I explained that we are all working for the same company and clearly know how processing of transactions can take days to actually hit your bank acccount. Yes I write down everything I pay/buy BUT I can not force my husband to do the same thing & I have had things refused for as little as $2 which does not constitue as a "cash flow" issue.

I of course defended myself and told them I wouldnt steal from my job which would put my family at risk. That of course got a response of "Well you know kids are expensive & maybe you needed to "borrow" some cash from your drawer." Bottom line what can I do to avoid being fired for this issue? I have already removed all of my money so no one can monitor me like that but the damage is already there.

*Thank you and please do not respond if you are planning to be rude or tell me I'm stupid.

 

[sandyclaus]

Was your personal account at the same bank where you worked? Otherwise, I'd be taking issue with how these folks actually gained access to the transactions in your own account.

Even if the answer is YES, I'm wondering if there would be issues with invasion of privacy (either ethical or legal) that might work in your favor here?

Is there a written policy that would allow them access to your personal account for investigative purposes like this without requesting specific permission to do so?

 

[Banned_Princess]

In PA:

I was pulled into an office by the audit type department of my job & questioned about procedures relating to verifying deposits etc. I was bashed for my drawer differences over my 1.5 yr employment which amounted to $457 ($100 was forced on me to take based on the "customer is always right" even though my drawer had never been short). This amount was not a daily accumulation & for the last 4 months I have had nothing. The person I spoke w/ told me they were watching my checking account & saw NSF issues in which they chalked up to a major cash flow issues. The woman finally spit it out "Why are we to not think these teller errors are really you taking the money?" I have not heard from them but I am afraid I will be fired. I have not stolen a thing & my personal life shouldnt be brought up.

I am completely aware that a bank will be looking into a teller's over/short's to be sure they have no misconduct. This is not my first teller position so I know the rules of the game and I have never heard of any place using these method's to find out if someone is violation policies. Not once in this meeting were any work related things brought up which gave them the feeling I had stolen anything to make my drawer short and they did admit to watching cameras a few times. The only source of evidence they present me was a couple of NSF things that were not at the same times as my errors. While sitting there in a state of shock at the rough tone that was used I was thinking WHAT THE HELL!!! I couldnt understand and still can not understand how my joint account having some returned (but represented & paid) items had anything to do with my job. I explained that we are all working for the same company and clearly know how processing of transactions can take days to actually hit your bank acccount. Yes I write down everything I pay/buy BUT I can not force my husband to do the same thing & I have had things refused for as little as $2 which does not constitue as a "cash flow" issue.

I of course defended myself and told them I wouldnt steal from my job which would put my family at risk. That of course got a response of "Well you know kids are expensive & maybe you needed to "borrow" some cash from your drawer." Bottom line what can I do to avoid being fired for this issue? I have already removed all of my money so no one can monitor me like that but the damage is already there.

*Thank you and please do not respond if you are planning to be rude or tell me I'm stupid.

there is nothing you can do to keep from being fired. Unless they can prove you stole money, your chances at collecting unemployment is good

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Regardless of which of you is causing the NSF's, if you had sufficient money in savings, these would likely not be occurring. Poor financial management skills can be of concern, when you work with other peoples money.

 

[commentator]

I would suspect that there might be some sort of understanding of access to all employee information in the hiring agreement. Many places keep a running check on their employees' credit scores. Personal bank account information at the bank where you work doesn't sound like too big a stretch to me.

But if you want us to tell you that you're right, that they SHOULDN'T check on you this way, that they shouldn't have access to your personal accounts and that it would be illegal for them to fire you for any reason, you're not going to get that. It is perfectly legal for them to fire you for just about any reason in an "at will" state. (The illegal ones are usually the ones related to EEOC issues)Do you bank at their bank because they offer you some sort of free employee checking or perk situation?

It is hard for me to imagine any embezzler would be silly enough to transfer the money from their drawer directly into their personal checking account at the same bank.

Are they saying that because you frequently bounce checks or your account is overdrawn that they think you're embezzling? Are they just interviewing you in an effort to try to get you to confess something because they'd like to get rid of you? That's legal

In any case, all your justifications and willy nilly accounts of yes but we've this and we've that and my husband might blah blah blah, and arguing that they have no right to go back over and question you about all the overages and shortages you've had, this doesn't look well for your side. You're their employee, and they don't have to be fair, or just, and they do have the right to do this(question you about your finances and your overages) and your justifications and outrage and over explanations make you sound more suspect than you might otherwise. Are you hiding anything? If not, then you'll just have to relax into this process and see what happens.

If they think they've got a reason to fire you, and they do, you'll not be able to sue them for wrongful termination or anything, but as princess says, you may have a chance to be approved for unemployment if they cannot show they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Also of concern is the statement "for the last four months, I have had nothing". So you kept making errors until they started to give you closer scrutiny, then your math skills improved?

 

[TheGeekess]

In PA:

I was pulled into an office by the audit type department of my job & questioned about procedures relating to verifying deposits etc. I was bashed for my drawer differences over my 1.5 yr employment which amounted to $457 ($100 was forced on me to take based on the "customer is always right" even though my drawer had never been short). This amount was not a daily accumulation & for the last 4 months I have had nothing. The person I spoke w/ told me they were watching my checking account & saw NSF issues in which they chalked up to a major cash flow issues. The woman finally spit it out "Why are we to not think these teller errors are really you taking the money?" I have not heard from them but I am afraid I will be fired. I have not stolen a thing & my personal life shouldnt be brought up.

I am completely aware that a bank will be looking into a teller's over/short's to be sure they have no misconduct. This is not my first teller position so I know the rules of the game and I have never heard of any place using these method's to find out if someone is violation policies. Not once in this meeting were any work related things brought up which gave them the feeling I had stolen anything to make my drawer short and they did admit to watching cameras a few times. The only source of evidence they present me was a couple of NSF things that were not at the same times as my errors. While sitting there in a state of shock at the rough tone that was used I was thinking WHAT THE HELL!!! I couldnt understand and still can not understand how my joint account having some returned (but represented & paid) items had anything to do with my job. I explained that we are all working for the same company and clearly know how processing of transactions can take days to actually hit your bank acccount. Yes I write down everything I pay/buy BUT I can not force my husband to do the same thing & I have had things refused for as little as $2 which does not constitue as a "cash flow" issue.

I of course defended myself and told them I wouldnt steal from my job which would put my family at risk. That of course got a response of "Well you know kids are expensive & maybe you needed to "borrow" some cash from your drawer." Bottom line what can I do to avoid being fired for this issue? I have already removed all of my money so no one can monitor me like that but the damage is already there.

*Thank you and please do not respond if you are planning to be rude or tell me I'm stupid.

Yes, that IS a cash flow issue. If you can't cover a $2 charge, then, you definitely have issues.

 

[FlyingRon]

I'm misunderstanding here. You have $457 in discrepancies racked up? How is it you got through even a week let alone a year and a half?
How is being in substantial shortage NOT work related?

 

[Antigone*]

As a banker speaking only from my own personal experience, you never want an employee working for you who cannot manage their financial affairs like this poster. I understand people have financial problems and this economy has hurt everyone, but the only good reason to have an overdrawn account and work for the bank is if there is fraud taking place. A person, even a teller who cannot appropriately manage the funds in their account is a risk.

A banker's job is to manage risk, so logically speaking a person who is a bad risk cannot effectively manage risk. I'd fire you in a heartbeat simply because of your account mismanagement. It would be worth the hit the banks takes for your unemployment benefits.

tigi - out

 

[eerelations]

...please do not respond if you are planning to be rude or tell me I'm stupid.

But that's the thing about free online forums - posters don't get to dictate what type of responses they'll receive!

 

[Rebecca2012]

Was your personal account at the same bank where you worked? Otherwise, I'd be taking issue with how these folks actually gained access to the transactions in your own account.

Even if the answer is YES, I'm wondering if there would be issues with invasion of privacy (either ethical or legal) that might work in your favor here?

Is there a written policy that would allow them access to your personal account for investigative purposes like this without requesting specific permission to do so?

Well Sandy since you and maybe one other person are the only people to actually speak on the issue without being a**holes about it I will respond to you first! I hold my bank account at this bank YES because they will not direct deposit to another financial insitution for pay. I did not originally bank with them when I started but figured it is silly to keep having to transfer my pay to another bank each time I got paid. There is of course no privacy with their own property and I certainly do not expect privacy with their stuff either. I am that angry that someone looked into the account but more upset that they think that has a correlation to my drawer with no sufficient evidence to go to that conclusion.

To address other questions asked as well: I am perfectly aware I am in an at-will state that can fire me for any cause so I am not expecting to be able to go for wrongful termination persay. My main worry is that I will not qualify for unemployment if they went that route based solely on their suspicions and no tangible evidence. I also did not at all argue, get mad or go on a rampage with a sob story while we were discussing this whole situation. I brought up my blah blah blah husband as someone called him because the woman asked specifically about the "other" person joint on the account and I answered then dropped it. I am perfectly fine at managing my money and have taken the steps I need personally to insure my finances are taken care of BUT as I said I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS JOINT account! I actually have my own account that I have ZERO NSF's in but use my joint to handle joint expenses which is not uncommon for people to do. I have nothing at all to hide and kept calm during the rude investigative techniques used....I just feel blindsighted by someone using my personal account to suspect something so extreme. It would be completely different if they pulled me in there to tell me I am not a good teller (right or wrong) and they were considering parting ways. Whether I agree with something like that being said or not I wouldnt of been so upset because that is their opinion to make just looking at me on paper.

Yes I have a total of $457 racked up in a 22 month period and trust me when I say that is not as bad as somone who has never worked in banking might think. This company does not work as others who use a recovery/balancing system with teller errors so even if I later find it in a transaction processed wrong it does not leave my record. One of the errors was for a bigger chunk of that $457 where my drawer was "touched" by management and never disclosed what was potentially removed while I was dealing with a disgruntal member (yes this part was already discussed with the audit team to be taken care of at a later date and yes I should of had the drawer locked while not in it at that very second so no need to tell me how wrong that is). Another one of those errors was forced upon me to take simply going by the "customer is always right" motto even though management admitted I wasnt techincally in the wrong.

@OHRoadWarrior: What this means is the last four months I have not had a single error even down to the penny and that has nothing at all to do with my "math skills". I had no clue anyone was watching me and I never said anything about knowing this was happening until the meeting soooooooooooooo how could I purposely try to do better to cover myself!?


Is not having $2 to cover something a cash flow issue to the point of risking my job?! Uh not to me so no it is not a cash flow issue that says I am stealing from my employer which would in turn cause a major cash flow problem called.....no paycheck! Also @commentator yes they are basically trying to hint that my NSF problems are meaning that I am stealing from my drawer. So I guess every teller who has ever gone negative in there personal account more than 2 times and has any shortages in there drawer has stolen the money for themselves!

 

[TheGeekess]

Well Sandy since you and maybe one other person are the only people to actually speak on the issue without being a**holes about it I will respond to you first! I hold my bank account at this bank YES because they will not direct deposit to another financial insitution for pay. I did not originally bank with them when I started but figured it is silly to keep having to transfer my pay to another bank each time I got paid. There is of course no privacy with their own property and I certainly do not expect privacy with their stuff either. I am that angry that someone looked into the account but more upset that they think that has a correlation to my drawer with no sufficient evidence to go to that conclusion.

To address other questions asked as well: I am perfectly aware I am in an at-will state that can fire me for any cause so I am not expecting to be able to go for wrongful termination persay. My main worry is that I will not qualify for unemployment if they went that route based solely on their suspicions and no tangible evidence. I also did not at all argue, get mad or go on a rampage with a sob story while we were discussing this whole situation. I brought up my blah blah blah husband as someone called him because the woman asked specifically about the "other" person joint on the account and I answered then dropped it. I am perfectly fine at managing my money and have taken the steps I need personally to insure my finances are taken care of BUT as I said I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS JOINT account! I actually have my own account that I have ZERO NSF's in but use my joint to handle joint expenses which is not uncommon for people to do. I have nothing at all to hide and kept calm during the rude investigative techniques used....I just feel blindsighted by someone using my personal account to suspect something so extreme. It would be completely different if they pulled me in there to tell me I am not a good teller (right or wrong) and they were considering parting ways. Whether I agree with something like that being said or not I wouldnt of been so upset because that is their opinion to make just looking at me on paper.

Yes I have a total of $457 racked up in a 22 month period and trust me when I say that is not as bad as somone who has never worked in banking might think. This company does not work as others who use a recovery/balancing system with teller errors so even if I later find it in a transaction processed wrong it does not leave my record. One of the errors was for a bigger chunk of that $457 where my drawer was "touched" by management and never disclosed what was potentially removed while I was dealing with a disgruntal member (yes this part was already discussed with the audit team to be taken care of at a later date and yes I should of had the drawer locked while not in it at that very second so no need to tell me how wrong that is). Another one of those errors was forced upon me to take simply going by the "customer is always right" motto even though management admitted I wasnt techincally in the wrong.

@OHRoadWarrior: What this means is the last four months I have not had a single error even down to the penny and that has nothing at all to do with my "math skills". I had no clue anyone was watching me and I never said anything about knowing this was happening until the meeting soooooooooooooo how could I purposely try to do better to cover myself!?


Is not having $2 to cover something a cash flow issue to the point of risking my job?! Uh not to me so no it is not a cash flow issue that says I am stealing from my employer which would in turn cause a major cash flow problem called.....no paycheck! Also @commentator yes they are basically trying to hint that my NSF problems are meaning that I am stealing from my drawer. So I guess every teller who has ever gone negative in there personal account more than 2 times and has any shortages in there drawer has stolen the money for themselves!

Alrighty then.

 

[commentator]

Quote: "My main worry is that I will not qualify for unemployment if they went that route based solely on their suspicions and no tangible evidence."

This makes no sense. Why would their firing you solely based on their suspicions and no tangible evidence make it MORE likely you wouldn't be approved to draw unemployment insurance?

If they fire you, and cannot demonstrate that they had a valid, proveable misconduct reason to fire you, your chances of getting approved for benefits go up tremendously. It's if they DO have proof you stole or mis-handled money that would make it unlikely that you would be approved. Your own confession would be very good, if they could get it, which is likely what they're trying for.

And no, your main worry isn't that you won't get to draw unemployment. Your main worry is that they might fire you. As I said before, what they're doing is perfectly legal (as you assure us you know!) so why are you having such a fit about it and going into all this wild justification? It makes you sound guilty as you can be. What they very well may be doing is fishing, trying to get you to admit something. And as you assure us, you know it's legal for them to do this. So what are you wanting us to do, sympathize with you because you feel "blindsighted"?

I have dealt with unemployment insurance claims for many years. If they don't have any good proof that you're stealing, if they do not have a valid reason to get rid of you, but they terminate you anyway, you will have an excellent chance of being approved for unemployment benefits.

If you're actually fired, and if you go into all this other stuff while you're filing an unemployment claim, "my husband did it, not me..... blah blah blah.....my own account is perfect.." it will cloud and confuse the issues, and tremendously weaken your case that you have been fired without a valid misconduct reason and proof of wrongdoing on your part.

If they fire you, a simple denial of any wrongdoing, clearly and repeatedly stated, is all you need to give. Say you always did your job to the best of your abilities. Then stop talking.

They may just be firing you because they don't like you. I know you know this is legal.

 

[BigMouthWino]

I hold my bank account at this bank YES because they will not direct deposit to another financial insitution for pay

Gee, I wonder if they do this to encourage employees to bank with them so they can monitor their accounts and manage employee risk?

I am perfectly fine at managing my money and have taken the steps I need personally to insure my finances are taken care of BUT as I said I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS JOINT account!

Apparently you are not. If you were fine at managing your money you would not have a joint account with someone who mismanages money. You are equally responsible for placing such an individual on your account. Also, if between your personal account and joint account you cannot pay for something that costs $2, you are not the person I want to hand my deposits to and I am sure the bank does not want you handling their money either. Why does this surprise you?

Yes I have a total of $457 racked up in a 22 month period and trust me when I say that is not as bad as somone who has never worked in banking might think. This company does not work as others who use a recovery/balancing system with teller errors so even if I later find it in a transaction processed wrong it does not leave my record. One of the errors was for a bigger chunk of that $457 where my drawer was "touched" by management and never disclosed what was potentially removed while I was dealing with a disgruntal member (yes this part was already discussed with the audit team to be taken care of at a later date and yes I should of had the drawer locked while not in it at that very second so no need to tell me how wrong that is).

So this error WAS your fault. You left your drawer unlocked and walked away from it. You are incredibly irresponsible. You admit to having a prior job as a teller, why did that end? In any even with prior teller experience you should have known to keep your drawer locked. The error was your fault. On average you were losing $25/mo. then your errors suddenly stopped. This looks quite suspicious.

Is not having $2 to cover something a cash flow issue to the point of risking my job?! Uh not to me so no it is not a cash flow issue that says I am stealing from my employer which would in turn cause a major cash flow problem called.....no paycheck!

It doesn't matter if not having $2 would not cause you sufficient concern to terminate yourself. You don't get to make that decision. Most managers would beg to disagree. An employee who handles your money should be able to manage their finances to a degree that a $2 purchase can be handled at any time.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

It appears you have fallen victim to new FDIC regs for banks. Yahoo just had an interesting article about an employee terminated for using a fake dime in a laundry in 1963. Another large bank has redefined their code of ethic to include the following;

defines a conflict of interest as giving family members special consideration or benefits; allowing the interest of the bank to supersede the interest of the customer without just cause; or engaging in personal activities that interfere or compete with professional obligations.