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Arbitration Agreement upon employment after already accepting an offer?

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Vlakmir

Junior Member
This applies to my future employment, beginning in August of 2014 in the state of California.


I did an internship last year in California and received and accepted a job offer in October of 2013 for employment to begin in August 2014.

I completed preliminary steps for employment, and still must do things like, consent to a background check 60 days prior to employment, etc...


A few weeks ago I received an e-mail saying that new employees start after 7/1/2014 are now subject to an arbitration agreement signing away their rights to class actions or making a claim against the employer.


My Question
Can my employer force me (consider a part of consideration of employment and/or refuse to hire me if I refuse) to sign this arbitration agreement if I already accepted my employment offer?

As far as I know, employment is sufficient consideration for an arbitration agreement to be included, but what if I already agreed to be employed? Can I tell me employer that I already agreed with the original offer and refuse?

Secondly, even if I do accept, but something bad happens and I want to file a suit, can I claim the arbitration agreement is void because there was no consideration offered with it because I already accepted my offer?

Odds are nothing so terrible will happen that I'm suing my first employer out of college....

but I am very opposed to signing my rights away to big companies to essentially win in arbitration.
This company has had a very large recent class action lawsuit so that is likely the reason this is now a part of employment.


If I refuse to sign, and my employment offer is withdrawn, can I sue for damages? Of what kind and to what extent?




I guess I'm unsure of when an employment offer is validly accepted, if the arbitration agreement has sufficient consideration, and if I can refuse to sign?
 


This applies to my future employment, beginning in August of 2014 in the state of California.


I did an internship last year in California and received and accepted a job offer in October of 2013 for employment to begin in August 2014.

I completed preliminary steps for employment, and still must do things like, consent to a background check 60 days prior to employment, etc...


A few weeks ago I received an e-mail saying that new employees start after 7/1/2014 are now subject to an arbitration agreement signing away their rights to class actions or making a claim against the employer.


My Question
Can my employer force me (consider a part of consideration of employment and/or refuse to hire me if I refuse) to sign this arbitration agreement if I already accepted my employment offer?

As far as I know, employment is sufficient consideration for an arbitration agreement to be included, but what if I already agreed to be employed? Can I tell me employer that I already agreed with the original offer and refuse?

Secondly, even if I do accept, but something bad happens and I want to file a suit, can I claim the arbitration agreement is void because there was no consideration offered with it because I already accepted my offer?

Odds are nothing so terrible will happen that I'm suing my first employer out of college....

but I am very opposed to signing my rights away to big companies to essentially win in arbitration.
This company has had a very large recent class action lawsuit so that is likely the reason this is now a part of employment.


If I refuse to sign, and my employment offer is withdrawn, can I sue for damages? Of what kind and to what extent?




I guess I'm unsure of when an employment offer is validly accepted, if the arbitration agreement has sufficient consideration, and if I can refuse to sign?
Sign or look for another job, I had to sign one of these for a company around a year ago. Well the boss man used it and me to grow the territory and bring on new accounts all the while when he was in town, having dinner with a former female employee of his. Trying to swoop her off her feet which must have worked cause he fired me without cause just 2 months after starting working and then hired his former wink wink employee back. Good companies do not make you sign crap like this and I did a little research of the subject since I considered for a while to try and sue them to get my 3 grand in commissions and bonuses owed to me. In California these arbitration agreements have been proven not to hold much water, they are strictly hard to enforce especially if they are so one sided to the employer. With that said you still are bound with the agreement and by signing acknowledging that you read and fully understood it. I will never sign another one of them ever again for any employer and if it costs me that particular job, so be it. I work for a company now that did not require me to sign anything like that and make as much or more money than I did at the company that required it. From experience, I would not do it but you have to learn on your own and it could be that the company is on the level. From my experience, it is a practice to protect unethical mangers and employees, in order to keep you from seeking damages from them for their actions.

Good luck with which ever direction you decide to go.
 

Vlakmir

Junior Member
Thanks for your input,


The company I am going to work for is known for having ridiculous hours, same with its competitors in the industry.
Unfortunately, I have been planning on this for a year out, so I will be signing it and taking the job regardless.
The reality is, this company, and all of those this big in the industry, have a very high turnover and I would be shocked if I even kept working there for more than 2 years.

It is frustrating to see even my own legal options, that is choose to be employed without certain rights or choose not to be employed. Especially considering the history and intent behind these agreements, and somewhat unconstitutional idea that the legal system can be privatized.


Anyway,

If someone could address the plausibility of favorable legal outcomes, such as the agreement being thrown out due to a lack of consideration because of me accepting a prior employment offer, I would appreciate it.


What seems really crappy is that it says that the arbitrator rules if the arbitration agreement is void or legally sufficient if the agreement is called into question......
 
Thanks for your input,


The company I am going to work for is known for having ridiculous hours, same with its competitors in the industry.
Unfortunately, I have been planning on this for a year out, so I will be signing it and taking the job regardless.
The reality is, this company, and all of those this big in the industry, have a very high turnover and I would be shocked if I even kept working there for more than 2 years.

It is frustrating to see even my own legal options, that is choose to be employed without certain rights or choose not to be employed. Especially considering the history and intent behind these agreements, and somewhat unconstitutional idea that the legal system can be privatized.


Anyway,

If someone could address the plausibility of favorable legal outcomes, such as the agreement being thrown out due to a lack of consideration because of me accepting a prior employment offer, I would appreciate it.


What seems really crappy is that it says that the arbitrator rules if the arbitration agreement is void or legally sufficient if the agreement is called into question......
I looked into it, for what I wanted to try and do, and if you can prove that the agreement is unconscionable under the eyes of the law then you can have it not recognized as a binding agreement and declared null and void. However, that is not easy to do and there are precedent cases especially in California which have declared such agreements unconscionable. What it really boils down to is if you have an agreement and you are seeking damages for wrong doing under that agreement. It often times will turn into a money spending contest in which they will keep it tied up in legal arguments hoping you will cave in and give up. I considered small claims because of the amount of money of which I was due and the fact that the burden is not as large in class action cases. You have no action though until something happens, so none of this could matter to you unless something happens.

I am a deregulation guy, loved the old days where there was 10 companies of every industry and they competed for wages. Those days unfortunately are long gone and what you have is what you have. Oh, and you do not have to file an arbitration, you can file a suit yourself if you are smart enough or get a lawyer to do it. A lawyer will want no part of it unless they stand to get a large sum of money. The company will argue that you have an arbitration agreement for which you would argue that the agreement is so unconscionable based upon XX or YY case and this outcome. The judge will rule and allow you to proceed as a civil matter or remand it to the arbitrator. The question is how do you think an arbitrator retained by this company will rule? They are not going to side with you, hence why you need to pursue the standard vanilla judicial system. Again, all this is for nothing if you go there and have ZERO problems. Good Luck and hopefully you have a good experience.

It does not matter when they ask you to sign it, you could be there 2 days or 10 years and the result is the same. You may look at case law and find that there are several cases that deal with the way these agreements are written (depends on what your agreement says) and that they are often written to be so one sided that they are basically unenforceable.
 
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Vlakmir

Junior Member
I looked into it, for what I wanted to try and do, and if you can prove that the agreement is unconscionable under the eyes of the law then you can have it not recognized as a binding agreement and declared null and void. However, that is not easy to do and there are precedent cases especially in California which have declared such agreements unconscionable. What it really boils down to is if you have an agreement and you are seeking damages for wrong doing under that agreement. It often times will turn into a money spending contest in which they will keep it tied up in legal arguments hoping you will cave in and give up. I considered small claims because of the amount of money of which I was due and the fact that the burden is not as large in class action cases. You have no action though until something happens, so none of this could matter to you unless something happens.

I am a deregulation guy, loved the old days where there was 10 companies of every industry and they competed for wages. Those days unfortunately are long gone and what you have is what you have. Oh, and you do not have to file an arbitration, you can file a suit yourself if you are smart enough or get a lawyer to do it. A lawyer will want no part of it unless they stand to get a large sum of money. The company will argue that you have an arbitration agreement for which you would argue that the agreement is so unconscionable based upon XX or YY case and this outcome. The judge will rule and allow you to proceed as a civil matter or remand it to the arbitrator. The question is how do you think an arbitrator retained by this company will rule? They are not going to side with you, hence why you need to pursue the standard vanilla judicial system. Again, all this is for nothing if you go there and have ZERO problems. Good Luck and hopefully you have a good experience.

It does not matter when they ask you to sign it, you could be there 2 days or 10 years and the result is the same. You may look at case law and find that there are several cases that deal with the way these agreements are written (depends on what your agreement says) and that they are often written to be so one sided that they are basically unenforceable.

Thank you, that was very helpful. I will review it and consider how unconscionable it is. Maybe I'll try to pull up some case law or hit up some lawyer friends too ... .><
 

commentator

Senior Member
Sign the agreement, take the freakin job, and don't worry about it. It's ridiculous to go into a job assuming that at some point in the future you may have grounds to sue your employer. You won't. The only rights you have, to a safe work place, to be paid appropriately for all the hours you actually work according to state and federal laws, to not being discriminated against for an illegal reason such as race, sex, religion, etc., you cannot sign those away, no matter what you signed.

The state knows this very well. This sort of agreement is to keep employees from thinking of suing them. If you are truly going to be working for the state of California, and not a private company, then all other information about how things work is inapplicable. State and federal employment are quite different from private industry.

And frankly, you're taking your advice on this site from a very questionable source. If you're the kind of smart alec who wants to look up and argue some case law, and "..." discuss this with my attorney, blah blah blah," before you take an entry level job, they don't really want you, and they'll be tickled to find that out before they hire you. If you take this job, and you're not satisfied with it, leave, find something else. But if you want the job, sign the paper.
 
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Vlakmir

Junior Member
Sign the agreement, take the freakin job, and don't worry about it. It's ridiculous to go into a job assuming that at some point in the future you may have grounds to sue your employer. You won't. The only rights you have, to a safe work place, to be paid appropriately for all the hours you actually work according to state and federal laws, to not being discriminated against for an illegal reason such as race, sex, religion, etc., you cannot sign those away, no matter what you signed.

The state knows this very well. This sort of agreement is to keep employees from thinking of suing them. If you are truly going to be working for the state of California, and not a private company, then all other information about how things work is inapplicable. State and federal employment are quite different from private industry.

And frankly, you're taking your advice on this site from a very questionable source. If you're the kind of smart alec who wants to look up and argue some case law, and "..." discuss this with my attorney, blah blah blah," before you take an entry level job, they don't really want you, and they'll be tickled to find that out before they hire you. If you take this job, and you're not satisfied with it, leave, find something else. But if you want the job, sign the paper.
Well considering this employer has been through a multimillion dollar lawsuit filed by employees that's lasted over the last 3 years, I don't think it's unreasonable to make sure I am protected from signing my rights to an impartial trial away.

I came looking for advice, on a free legal advice forum, about the law because my experience with law is fairly limited to sales and business contracts instead of employment contracts - such as when they are effective, adequate consideration, etc...

I am not going to be working for the state of California, so assuming all of this is inapplicable based on that fact seems completely moot.

I am not taking advice at face value, I am using this advice to seek a proper direction for research and discussion with my lawyer friends as not to completely waste their time, since they help me for free - so I know what terms are applicable, what defenses are moot, and possible areas where this agreement may be invalid (ie : signing a previously tendered employment contract + now getting a new revised one)

You then jump to conclude I am a smart-ass simply because I am looking to see what my rights as in employee are? I wouldn't argue case-law with my employer because it would be completely inapplicable....case law would only be presented at precedents in a court in order to throw the agreement out in case something ever did happen.... so I don't even see where you are going with this? You sound like an arrogant jaded old man spitting on someone entering an entry level position. I see you are an arbitrator, why not offer the positives and negatives to arbitration? Or your opinion on the realistic impartiality of the arbitration process, or if firms do/are allowed to use the same arbitrator over time, who can choose the arbitrator, etc.... Why not be helpful rather than troll?

I work in an information sensitive industry as a licensed professional, and I think it's very important to cover my own ass in case my employer would shift liability for my work on to me, and then succeed through arbitration due to the inherent inequality in the arbitration process.

You are not helpful at all. And frankly, you seem jaded. It's sad because you are in position to offer real experience and perspective to the process. Go troll other forums, thx.
 
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commentator

Senior Member
Excuse me, I misread that you might be going into state employment, partly because of the internship aspect.

But I assure you, if nothing else, you are very much by far over thinking this issue, and it is likely to cost you the position if you continue to pursue this issue. That you are an entry level employee does not mean anyone is looking down their nose at you, it means you have very little to worry about as far as finding it necessary to sue your employer in the near future. You need experience in the field which they are offering to give you, not assurance you'll be able to litigate against them. That they've recently been going through a suit means they'll be twice as suspicious and likely not to extend the offer if you make a big deal of it.

And you have dialed up here one of the world's greatest overthinkers, who is advising you to step into the looking glass and react in the same complicated convoluted overthought way. Great minds think alike, I guess. You need to follow his advice to the letter.

Now I'll go troll my bitter old butt somewhere else:)
 
I was not going to respond back to this thread since it was dead, and commentators reply back to me did not get under my skin. She knows her stuff and is not a troll, helped me out with a situation I was in that happened at the same time of my termination so my former boss could hire back his girlfriend. I ended up hiring a lawyer but the background information she provided helped me get a better understanding of what it was I was trying to accomplish. She knows her stuff but most here are tort adverse, meaning no matter how small or large the case may be, they usually all side with the do not sue camp, like it has some sort of societal adverse effects? I seriously thought of suing to get my 3 grand cause I was unemployed and they knew what they were doing. I signed an arbitration agreement that I did not even read because I needed a job only to be bitten by the protection it provided their unmoral and unethical management team. It is what it is, with around 50 percent of our society not working, companies take advantage of the workforce with crap like this. There are broad cases out there that apply to arbitration agreements and if there is one thing positive I can say about California is that they usually side with the employee over the employer when it comes to labor practices such as arbitration and non compete agreements. These cases have been upheld by the United States Supreme court as well. The OP knows that lawyers argue cases based off precedence and those guidelines apply law to similar circumstances that this OP or myself as a person who signed an arbitration agreement might find themselves in.

Again, this is preliminary and I hope that you are not going into this job looking for a loophole to file a class action or some other lawsuits. Frivolous things should not be pursued and UNLESS SOMETHING HAPPENS WHICH IS NOT LIKELY then you have nothing to worry about. I think regardless of whether you are a trained lawyer or not, you should be prepared to win or unprepared to lose. There is nothing wrong with over thinking your situation; however, there is something wrong with freaking out about an arbitration clause that you probably would have no needs for any way. If nothing happens then you have nothing to worry about, you do your job to the best of your abilities and if that is not good enough or you get terminated for some ridiculous reason unrelated to your job performance. You might have something to think about and pursue at that time.

Good luck with the job and I doubt you will have any problems.
 

Vlakmir

Junior Member
Hey,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I definitely am an over thinker and from a rural state fearing of large corporations from California :) I can see how you feel this probably not material to the fact that I'm gaining experience at this point in my career. I assumed your original dismissal was based more on my own assumptions by the way you replied at first rather than practicality.

Thanks again!

Vlak
 

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