Being displaced

[frani810]

What is the name of your state?
Work in Trenton, NJ, Live in Bristol, PA

Are the labor laws and practices the same, if not, which state do I fall under?

Hello

There is a good chance that I am being "displaced" or laid off this year after achieving 21 years of service at my company. Are there any laws that serve as guidelines for my company to follow? For example, I have 21 years of service and I am 51 years old. Is there something relative to tenure and age that will determine if a company can displace me. I will be informed in 2 weeks that my job is going to be eliminated by September. The management and the HR department devised a matrix for all the people in question. They came up with a scoring system for certain criteria, and the low points will leave. This is disregarding all experience and knowledge. It is hinged on the job evaluation score, but the evaluation scores are all politcally calculated. I feel like I am part of a roulette game!

Any advice that you can offer or explain about how things work will be appreciated.

FranWhat is the name of your state?

 

[Hot Topic]

{Quote}The management and the HR department devised a matrix for all the people in question. They came up with a scoring system for certain criteria, and the low points will leave.{Unquote}

Based on the above, it doesn't appear that anything illegal is being done by either management or HR. Without seeing the scoring system, it's not possible to give a definite answer, however.

There's no law against terminating someone with 21 years of service unless something in your employment contract says otherwise. You're probably an "at will" employee, meaning you can quit any time you like, and they can terminate you unless you can prove that they're breaking some law in doing so.

They've given you notice that your job will be eliminated sometime during the next seven months. They could have called you in and told you to pack your things and leave that day. You've been given fair warning, and what you do with it is up to you.

That's life.

 

[frani810]

I would be happy to show you the grid with the point system, but I do not see any way of attaching a document to the post. My counterpart and I have nearly identical work backgrounds. We have the same job title, same job description, same job evaluation, same director, different managers. Evaluations are composed by the managers and administered by both manager and director respectively.

As I said, the evaluations are politically based. My counterpart's scoring was significantly higher than my scoring, but I'm always told we have the same job. I know for a fact that I am pushing through the work at a much more faster and streamlined way than my counterpart. I was assigned early on in this present administration to cut back. I have fulfilled all of my assignments. I have ultimately ended up at the present time with the "e-office" which is something that I always wanted to achieve. I work very fast, accurately, can reply immediately to issues, etc. I love it! On the other hand, my counterpart has never been pressured, continues to work with a large paperflow, did not automate to the extent that I did, and has a lot more problems on her site than I do. I have achieved eliminating all of that kind of problematic work.

My counterpart got a much higher score on the evaluation from last year which is the score now being used to determine elimination. For some reason, her manager gave her an "exceeds". I'm was given a "fully meets" which is a lower number score because I'm always told that I cannot exceed on such things as filing, filling out forms, etc. (We do administrative assistant work).

I did address my scoring last year and both my manager a nd director seemed to feel bad that my number came out so low but yet "fully meets." I did not put up too much of a fuss because "fully meets" does sound reasonable to me and it wasn't necessarily bad. At the time my manager felt bad; she said she did not realize how low the number score came out and it jeopardized me getting more money. My director said he did not notice it.
(Then again, who knows if they are telling me the honest truth!). When I ask what my counterpart is doing differently, I am told she does the same thing. When I ask what other kind of work or projects she is being offered to do that I am not, I get an "I don't know." So then I ask, well how can she be doing the work better when I have accomplished everything and reduced the paper and time and problems? I get no answer.

As I said, the evaluations are political, and now it is costing me my job!

Please comment.

 

[cbg]

In all 50 states, absent a legally binding contract or CBA that specifically outlines how layoffs, displacements, job eliminations, or whatever you want to call them, will be determined, an employer may use any selection method they choose to as long as the selection method in place does not violate either Title VII (and related laws) or public policy. They can draw names out of a hat and it would be legal.

Nothing you have posted suggests anything illegal.

 

[frani810]

Any guidielines to severance pay? Or is it purely employer's choice?

If offered a "comparable' position, who determines comparable and what are the criteria for "comparable." Is that purely employers choice?

If I do not feel the "potential" comparable job is "just" or something that I can handle, do I have a choice to take the severence pay or will I be in a predicament to lose my payout?

Obviously, the company is NOT going to want to hand out "free" money. How dirty can they legally get? Of course, the company is going to want to effect a voluntary resignation.

Any protection for me at all?

 

[cbg]

Again, absent a legally binding contract or CBA that says otherwise, severance is not required by law in 47 out of 50 states (including both NJ and PA) and is only required under very limited circumstances in the remaining three.

Absent a legally binding contract or CBA that says otherwise, there is no requirement that anyone be offered another position, comparable or otherwise. Outside of FMLA, which does not apply here, comparable is what the employer says it is.

It is extremely common for an employee who turns down available work to lose both severance and unemployment benefits.

If by "protection" you mean, is there some legal means by which you can force the employer to retain you or offer you a position at the same pay, no, there is none.

 

[Hot Topic]

There are always intangibles involved in these things. Sometimes one person is kept and another let go because a manager has a personal preference for one over the other. It may not be fair, but that's the way things are and probably always will be.

My performance review was impacted last year by comments from people in a department that technically I don't even work for. It happens.

 

[las365]

Until a decision is made regarding whether or not you will be laid off, all you can do is carefully observe what is happening in the workplace, do a good job at work, and sit tight. If you are laid off and offered a severance package, take it to an experienced employment lawyer for review and advice. You may be able to negotiate a better deal than they originally offer.

You do belong to a protected class because you are over 40; however, that doesn't mean that you can't be fired or laid off. It does mean that if you are fired or laid off because of your age, and can prove that, you may be able to prevail in an age discrimination claim.

 

[cbg]

A note to newer responders:

You might want to do a search on this OP's name and take a look at the history with this employer. I can't say I'm surprised that she's on the displacement list, if indeed she is, and it has nothing to do with age discrimination.

 

[frani810]

Dear cbg,

I think you are very smart and knowledgeable. I can't remember if you are a lawyer or an hr manager, but I do remember the historical posts. I always respected what you wrote.

I reflect back a lot on the tumultuous relationship I had with this management. You know, it's been 16 years under this management. I am well aware and expected that I was going to be the one to go. It has been a very difficult 16 years of working under a coersive management style targeted at my position (me personally). It is very true that my boss was trying to get me to leave and wanted me to go voluntarily. He did not want any layoff under his name. Really, there were some very dark days.

But cbg, you know I was afraid of him. I loved my job and my work and my position. I wanted my job and I fought to keep it. It is unfortunate for me that I am just not skilled in fighting back. This went on for so long and yet, my boss swore that he was not trying to get rid of me. My boss even wrote me up and counseled me in front of the employee relations manager in personnel. He wrote me up for taking up too much of his time with questions. . He had the employee relations manager talk to me and explain to me that my boss had no intentionsi of getting rid of me. Furthermore, everytime I see the employee relations manager, he always greets me with "oh look! Fran Indelicato is still here, she's still with us!" Well now, since the elimination meetings commenced last week, of which the employee relations manager is heavily involved, he doesn't greet me like that anymore.

cbg, maybe I am the whiner and the pita like you said. Yes, my boss did not care for me. He often told me that he had no need for an administrative assistant. He had no job for me (he disbanded my whole office for a long time and dispersed the work throughout the laboratory). I was behind my desk for a long time literally with no work. I even showed the employee relations manager how clean my desk was. My boss would tell me to go look for another job.

cbg, I loved my job. Prior to my boss's entry, I was the entire administration for the whole laboratory. - a one-man band. I learned a lot. I handled "everything". My boss took all of that away from me in a matter of a couple of weeks. That's when everything started between us. I wanted my job back. I excell at my job, and yes, I do excell better than my counterpart -- I am very well aware on how she handles the workflow. I have her beat. I have a lot more knowledge of the laboratory than she'll ever have or acquire experience in. She has not that much interest in getting that involved in the work. I am a do-er, not a delegator.

So cbg, I am an honest, hard worker. I am a workhorse. I am meticuluous, picky, and fussy. I am efficient and work systems to the fullest extent to get the work done RIGHT, the first time, with no problems. I work fast. BUT, this is all wrong cbg. Why? Because I do not have the personality he desired and could not play the power play game. My boss got everything he had to get from me and thensome. I always overextended myself to service him and the laboratory. That's me. I am the butt joke of the entire laboratory - both sites. I make noise when there are obstacles. I have 0 tolerance for nonsense and game playing. I go to work to get my work done.

cbg, I do respect you and your opinion. I was hoping you would respond. Truly, you didn't tell me anything that I haven't heard a million times over the past 16 years. I just wanted my job. I need to keep busy. I would have loved to be my boss's right arm, but he rejected me. He was not nice to me and he did mistreat me. He takes comfort in my counterpart and seemingly hasn't changed a thing on her job, responsibilities, or life. Whatever works, I guess.

I feel bad for me cbg. I worked so hard. That office and workload belongs to me. I've mastered everything. My boss was never phased. He was extraordinarily critical of me and always tore me down. I met up with people who I was not able to handle or trust. Obviously, I am not a fighter, but a reactor. In the end, now he is getting rid of me. But for some reason, he says he's not getting rid of anybody. He is having his day in the sun.

 

[cbg]

Fran, I gave you suggestions years ago. But you refused to do anything except stay where you were. I know all about difficult job markets. But when I was in a bad situation, I kept looking till I found something, even if it took years. As far as I can tell, you just decided that it would be hard to find a new job so you didn't even try, you just sat back and waited for someone else to fix the problem for you. You wanted the law to do it, and if the law wouldn't do it you wanted HR to do it, and if HR wouldn't do it then you wouldn't take any steps to fix it yourself.

I'm sorry that you're in a bad situation. But you had the means, long ago, to do something about it and you didn't take them. You started posting about this in 2002 or so. Surely you could have found SOMETHING else in six years. Did you even try to find another job?

It looks as if the matter may have been taken out of your hands.

 

[frani810]

Actually, cbg, I did look. I went on several interviews only to hear the same thing over and over. I sent out a lot of resumes, did not get any replies. Some of the interviews were misleading and turned out to be part time or temp. People were not interested in me. My field changed alot. Now it is mostly temp. My life changed a lot. Schooling is not really going to be feasible. Please don't think I did not try. Yes, I did get disgusted and discouraged by the people who were interviewing me. I've worked all my life, I have the experience and skills. How can I not qualify? My skills are transferrable. I only know one industry, that's a problem. I was looking to make a lateral move. The people were not interested.

I know you told me to leave. I tried. The worst fear is coming true.

Right now, I'm destroyed.

Thank you so much for being there whenever I wrote.

 

[Hot Topic]

It can't be expected that every member wanting to respond to a post check the poster's history on the forum, but at this point, I feel like some of us have been "had." I felt a little sorry for fran, but having read the history involved, I find it easy to understand why the company has decided it can manage without fran, who obviously knew what was coming before the "unfair" testing.

I have a two word suggestion when the axe finally falls: Professional counseling.

 

[frani810]

I had no intention of misleading anybody. No doubt counseling is necessary!

 

[frani810]

It doesn't matter what you do, how good you master it, how knowledgeable you are at your job. It's who you are and how well you play with the powers to be.

Somebody else will always want what you have.

If you do the job and achieve all the accomplishments and thensome, you do not necessarily reap any rewards, advancement, security or accolades. Management is not really fair and square.

Knowledge is power; you can guarantee this will be held against you.

The dumber you play, the further you will get.

Out of the mouths of babes truer words will never be spoken.

It's what the law doesn't say that counts.