in California, 3 days before getting off of maternity leave, my boss called me and told me I would be working from 8-4:30 when I returned to work which was not the hours I've worked of 5:30-2 for the past two years. I have two children and have scheduled my time to fit around picking them up after 2 and my son needs to be picked up by 5 but it will be impossible for me to get there on time with the new schedule, as well as cause financial problems having to extend daycare. Will I be granted unemployment based on this information or is this considered "voluntary quit"?
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Is it considered "voluntary quit" if
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commentator
Senior Member
Usually the unemployment system does not deal kindly with people who quit for personal reasons such as child care arrangements, though some states are more lenient than others. They generally feel that the hours of your job are not a protected or guaranteed thing that you can either demand to keep or quit because they change and be approved for benefits easily.
I do not know if there is protection for your same hours and schedule in the FMLA laws, but I suspect someone here will be able to help you with that.
A work schedule of 8:00am to 4:30pm is not a really unusual or tough schedule; it's not really like they had asked you to work midnights or weekends. In fact, it's a pretty standard schedule. I assure you the unemployment office is not going to take your personal financial situation into consideration when they decide to approve or deny the claim. Are you sure you are going to be able to find a replacement job that has hours that you can do?
In order to get unemployment insurance you must be able and available and actively seeking work, and you can't demand a certain shift or hours that accomodate your child care before you'd accept a job. It's sort of a principle that first you get the job, then you mold your child care arrangements around it, instead of vice versa.
I do not know if there is protection for your same hours and schedule in the FMLA laws, but I suspect someone here will be able to help you with that.
A work schedule of 8:00am to 4:30pm is not a really unusual or tough schedule; it's not really like they had asked you to work midnights or weekends. In fact, it's a pretty standard schedule. I assure you the unemployment office is not going to take your personal financial situation into consideration when they decide to approve or deny the claim. Are you sure you are going to be able to find a replacement job that has hours that you can do?
In order to get unemployment insurance you must be able and available and actively seeking work, and you can't demand a certain shift or hours that accomodate your child care before you'd accept a job. It's sort of a principle that first you get the job, then you mold your child care arrangements around it, instead of vice versa.
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cbg
I'm a Northern Girl
I do not know if there is protection for your same hours and schedule in the FMLA laws, but I suspect someone here will be able to help you with that.
I can. And the answer is, it depends.
FMLA requires that you be returned to either your same job, or one that is equivalent in all respects, including hours and schedule. HOWEVER, FMLA does not protect you from changes to your job, hours, or schedule, that would have happened regardless of whether you took FMLA or not. So if your hours and schedule would have changed regardless of your FMLA leave, then your employer may legally make that change now. If the change is being made SOLELY because you took FMLA, then the change is illegal.
Edited to add:
Patty is correct. If FMLA/CFRA does not apply, then the change is legal regardless.
I can. And the answer is, it depends.
FMLA requires that you be returned to either your same job, or one that is equivalent in all respects, including hours and schedule. HOWEVER, FMLA does not protect you from changes to your job, hours, or schedule, that would have happened regardless of whether you took FMLA or not. So if your hours and schedule would have changed regardless of your FMLA leave, then your employer may legally make that change now. If the change is being made SOLELY because you took FMLA, then the change is illegal.
Edited to add:
Patty is correct. If FMLA/CFRA does not apply, then the change is legal regardless.
Yes I was coming back from maternity leave...
pattytx: According to their "guidelines" they give disability up to four months and maternity leave up to four as well. I was put on disability a month and a half before I gave birth due to pregnancy complications and was on maternity leave for a little over three months (please read my response to ecmst12 for clarification). So to answer your question, yes I should have been.
cbg: I don't believe my schedule would have changed if I wasn't on FMLA, the only reason it changed was because they wanted me to work the third highest account in the company (yes, they changed my schedule for their benefit) and those were the hours for that position. I'd still be doing the same thing, just bigger account, and different hours (which I obviously couldn't work). And if I should have been reserved the same hours under FMLA/CFRA, is there any documentation you can show me regarding this (because my job had over 50 employees and I qualified for both disability as well as PFL) and does this apply in the state of California? Also, even if my job changed my schedule solely due to "changes to my job", wouldn't that then qualify me as being laid off/terminated because I in turn could not take the new schedule?
commentator: I have been working 5:30-2 for the past two years I have worked there, this is the schedule we agreed on upon my hire. How would you expect, 3 days before coming back to work from maternity leave for me to try and reschedule my times for daycare/pickup for preschool in that short amount of time, especially since I had already made arrangements around my original scheule? They basically forced me out of the job, especially since they knew I couldn't work that schedule. If they had planned on switching my schedule, they should have told me in a timely manner, not three days before. I know you schedule daycare around work, and not vice versa which is my point exactly, only they changed my hours, duh.
pattytx: According to their "guidelines" they give disability up to four months and maternity leave up to four as well. I was put on disability a month and a half before I gave birth due to pregnancy complications and was on maternity leave for a little over three months (please read my response to ecmst12 for clarification). So to answer your question, yes I should have been.
cbg: I don't believe my schedule would have changed if I wasn't on FMLA, the only reason it changed was because they wanted me to work the third highest account in the company (yes, they changed my schedule for their benefit) and those were the hours for that position. I'd still be doing the same thing, just bigger account, and different hours (which I obviously couldn't work). And if I should have been reserved the same hours under FMLA/CFRA, is there any documentation you can show me regarding this (because my job had over 50 employees and I qualified for both disability as well as PFL) and does this apply in the state of California? Also, even if my job changed my schedule solely due to "changes to my job", wouldn't that then qualify me as being laid off/terminated because I in turn could not take the new schedule?
commentator: I have been working 5:30-2 for the past two years I have worked there, this is the schedule we agreed on upon my hire. How would you expect, 3 days before coming back to work from maternity leave for me to try and reschedule my times for daycare/pickup for preschool in that short amount of time, especially since I had already made arrangements around my original scheule? They basically forced me out of the job, especially since they knew I couldn't work that schedule. If they had planned on switching my schedule, they should have told me in a timely manner, not three days before. I know you schedule daycare around work, and not vice versa which is my point exactly, only they changed my hours, duh.
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Under FMLA...
ecmst12: I'm sorry I forgot about the six weeks of disability you get after giving birth. So NO, it wasn't over 12 weeks. After giving birth, I would still have been on disabilty for another six weeks (PDA). Then my maternity leave would have kicked in after that, by then it would have been Sept 2nd, so starting from Sept 2nd, I could spend time with my baby for up to 12 weeks under FMLA and I was scheduled to return to work Nov 2nd, which means I only stayed home for 8 weeks, therefore I should still have been covered under FMLA.
ecmst12: I'm sorry I forgot about the six weeks of disability you get after giving birth. So NO, it wasn't over 12 weeks. After giving birth, I would still have been on disabilty for another six weeks (PDA). Then my maternity leave would have kicked in after that, by then it would have been Sept 2nd, so starting from Sept 2nd, I could spend time with my baby for up to 12 weeks under FMLA and I was scheduled to return to work Nov 2nd, which means I only stayed home for 8 weeks, therefore I should still have been covered under FMLA.
FMLA runs concurrently with all types of disability leave. Unless CA has more generous rules then the federal law, which it may, all you get job protection for is 12 weeks TOTAL. Including the time before the birth, including the time covered by CA disability or any private disability insurance you might have had, including everything. So if you were out 6 weeks before the birth, 6 weeks after, and then another 8 weeks after that, you well exceeded any job protection you're entitled to under federal law.
I meant under CFRA...
In California, we have PDL. Which means, most female employees can take up to 4 months of leave for childbearing & pregnancy related disability (which is subject to medical certification that an actual disability exists) under the Fair Employment & Housing Act. The FMLA and state act are generally in alignment except in California, a woman may take up to four months pregnancy disability leave followed by up to twelve weeks of family medical leave. This is the rare circumstance when leave under the FMLA & CFRA don't run concurrently, FMLA leave will run concurrently with PDL, after which the CFRA can be invoked for an additional twelve weeks of leave.
This is per the state of California, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
In California, we have PDL. Which means, most female employees can take up to 4 months of leave for childbearing & pregnancy related disability (which is subject to medical certification that an actual disability exists) under the Fair Employment & Housing Act. The FMLA and state act are generally in alignment except in California, a woman may take up to four months pregnancy disability leave followed by up to twelve weeks of family medical leave. This is the rare circumstance when leave under the FMLA & CFRA don't run concurrently, FMLA leave will run concurrently with PDL, after which the CFRA can be invoked for an additional twelve weeks of leave.
This is per the state of California, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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I will contact them tomorrow, thanks for the advice. However this is how California law runs, I should be legally entitled to have my position back, but since they pretty much said I wouldn't be getting it back, I feel I should qualify for unemployment but I guess the unemployment interviewer will just have to decide that for me.
commentator
Senior Member
No, actually, the interviewer will ask you some questions. They will be very basic. It will be something like "Why did you quit your job?" and "When did you quit your job?" and "What steps did you try to take to resolve this situation before quitting your job?" It might help to report to them, chapter and verse, the laws you have found here regarding returning to work after maternity leave, using FMLA and that other thing, PDL, just to get it into the discussion.
It would be awfully good too, if you answer the question "Are you able and available and ready to accept another job?" in the affirmative, and "Are there any days, hours or shifts you are not willing to work? (Reason?)" as if you're willing to work anytime, any place, any hours."
The decision will be made not on the phone when you file by an interviewer, but by an ajudicator, after a few weeks, and after both you and the employer have given statements regarding the situation. After the initial decision is issued, if you are denied benefits, you can appeal and have a hearing. If the claim is approved, the employer can appeal and you'll be notified of a hearing date so a second decision can be made.
Actually, based on what you said, it sounds more like they changed your hours to accomodate the client they wanted you to take over, not as punishment for you because you'd been on leave, but to accomodate this client. Employers are fully allowed to do this. Did you discuss this situation fully with your employer, try to get this worked out, perhaps postponed for a few weeks until you could get other arrangements made?
It would be awfully good too, if you answer the question "Are you able and available and ready to accept another job?" in the affirmative, and "Are there any days, hours or shifts you are not willing to work? (Reason?)" as if you're willing to work anytime, any place, any hours."
The decision will be made not on the phone when you file by an interviewer, but by an ajudicator, after a few weeks, and after both you and the employer have given statements regarding the situation. After the initial decision is issued, if you are denied benefits, you can appeal and have a hearing. If the claim is approved, the employer can appeal and you'll be notified of a hearing date so a second decision can be made.
Actually, based on what you said, it sounds more like they changed your hours to accomodate the client they wanted you to take over, not as punishment for you because you'd been on leave, but to accomodate this client. Employers are fully allowed to do this. Did you discuss this situation fully with your employer, try to get this worked out, perhaps postponed for a few weeks until you could get other arrangements made?
Yes, yes, and yes...
commentator: So your saying I shouldn't even talk about FMLA/CFRA/PDL probably because they wouldn't understand that anyway? And yes I have been looking for a job since my termination, and I say termination because I contest to this day that I quit. He basically gave me an ultimatum, to either take the position or there was no position for me, and if he did it to accomodate a clients needs, meaning, it had nothing to do with me being on maternity leave and my hours would have changed anyway, and knowing I couldn't do it, then I should have been considered terminated/laid off, not that I quit, as the company is trying to make it seem and not paying me out the 2 weeks vacation that I am entitled to. By the way, they do ask you if you want to change shifts, but they never force you to if you can't, they never have. They made the changes because I was on leave. I even told him that I had been working that schedule for the past two years and he argued with me that I had been gone for a period of over six months (which is incorrect). But if that was so, why would he try to stick me with a high account when I haven't even worked for over half a year? Do you kind of understand my dilemma? And to answer your last question, yes I did try to work it out with my employer. I advised him that since my son needed to be picked up from preschool by five, and since traffic was at its peak from my work going down to my son's school, I asked if I could come in an extra half hour so instead of working 8-4:30, I asked to come in from 7:30-4, however he said that was the only position available or there was no position for me. It's not the fact that I have to be out by 2, its the fact that my son has to be picked up by 5, and from there with traffic there would have been no guarantee I could get him by 5 everyday, so I feel I did everything I could to try to keep my job.
commentator: So your saying I shouldn't even talk about FMLA/CFRA/PDL probably because they wouldn't understand that anyway? And yes I have been looking for a job since my termination, and I say termination because I contest to this day that I quit. He basically gave me an ultimatum, to either take the position or there was no position for me, and if he did it to accomodate a clients needs, meaning, it had nothing to do with me being on maternity leave and my hours would have changed anyway, and knowing I couldn't do it, then I should have been considered terminated/laid off, not that I quit, as the company is trying to make it seem and not paying me out the 2 weeks vacation that I am entitled to. By the way, they do ask you if you want to change shifts, but they never force you to if you can't, they never have. They made the changes because I was on leave. I even told him that I had been working that schedule for the past two years and he argued with me that I had been gone for a period of over six months (which is incorrect). But if that was so, why would he try to stick me with a high account when I haven't even worked for over half a year? Do you kind of understand my dilemma? And to answer your last question, yes I did try to work it out with my employer. I advised him that since my son needed to be picked up from preschool by five, and since traffic was at its peak from my work going down to my son's school, I asked if I could come in an extra half hour so instead of working 8-4:30, I asked to come in from 7:30-4, however he said that was the only position available or there was no position for me. It's not the fact that I have to be out by 2, its the fact that my son has to be picked up by 5, and from there with traffic there would have been no guarantee I could get him by 5 everyday, so I feel I did everything I could to try to keep my job.
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You are getting ahead of yourself. If the company is required to offer you the same hours under the leave laws, then the DLSE can counsel them and hopefully prevent the problem from going any further.
If the DLSE says they are NOT required to let you have your old hours back, then your chances of getting unemployment go way down if you quit. It would be much better if you could stick around long enough to find something else, or to try to work something out with your boss's boss or something like that.
You may have a hard time proving the shift change was due to you being out on leave though, if they say it would have happened regardless.
If the DLSE says they are NOT required to let you have your old hours back, then your chances of getting unemployment go way down if you quit. It would be much better if you could stick around long enough to find something else, or to try to work something out with your boss's boss or something like that.
You may have a hard time proving the shift change was due to you being out on leave though, if they say it would have happened regardless.
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