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Criminal Background

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funcdoc

Guest
i live in al. i am a black male. i applied for an engineering job with a local firm. i was turned down for the position because of a theft of property conviction 2nd degree i had in 1991. that was my one and only conviction. it was also the sole reason given to me on my turn down letter. given that it has been 10 years ago and my age at the time (19), and that i see know relationship between the crime and the job, does this qualify for disparate treatment ??? i am currently working in a similar position with another firm and have been here seven years. i have already file a complaint with the EEOC and the position has been open since i applied this summer. do i have any legal rights ?
 


I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
funcdoc said:
i live in al. i am a black male. i applied for an engineering job with a local firm. i was turned down for the position because of a theft of property conviction 2nd degree i had in 1991. that was my one and only conviction. it was also the sole reason given to me on my turn down letter. given that it has been 10 years ago and my age at the time (19), and that i see know relationship between the crime and the job, does this qualify for disparate treatment ??? i am currently working in a similar position with another firm and have been here seven years. i have already file a complaint with the EEOC and the position has been open since i applied this summer. do i have any legal rights ?
My response:

You've got nothing.

If an employer chooses not to have "felons" on its payroll, then it is within it's rights to disqualify you for employment. All because your current employer never checked you out, or decided to take a "chance" on you, doesn't mean your prospective employer is compelled to "lower the bar". Also, from your post, being "Black" had nothing to do with your disqualification.

Your adult criminal record will follow you for the rest of your life, and this is how you will be judged by others.

You might want to check with a criminal attorney to pay to have your criminal record "expunged". Doing this, if granted by the court will, for the most part, "seal your records" from the public sector, such as potential employers. But, it will not seal your records from the court, itself, or from law enforcement agencies.

Good luck.

IAAL
 

Beth3

Senior Member
funcdoc, you can't make a disparate impact determination based upon an isolated situation.

If, for example, I don't hire YOU because your not at least 5'8" tall (let's assume for the sake of this silly example that's not a legitimate requirement of the job), that's lawful. But if I have a policy that I won't hire ANYONE who's not at least 5'8" tall, then that will have a disparate impact on Asians, females, etc., who as a group are on average shorter than that. I have effectively barred most members of one or more protected groups from employment.

So if the employer simply won't hire you based upon your conviction or this particular type of crime, the employer is likely in the clear. If they have a policy that they won't hire anyone with a conviction record, then you may have a case for disparate impact as certain minority and racial groups have a higher incidence of criminal convictions per capita than others.

Since you've already filed a complaint with the EEOC, I don't see that you have any options at this point but to wait for them to conclude their investigation and see what they decide.
 
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retertoooo

Guest
Beth i guess you are bleeding heart liberal...

Certain minorites have a higher propesity fr crime, because of their race.

HOGWASH!

If you dont know right from wrong, then why should the EEOC help at all?

Why should we excuse his behavior because he is black? Isnt that Lowering standards becuase of his race?

If he can prove that white guys with prior criminal records are employed there then he would have cause to sue.
 

Beth3

Senior Member
rentertooo, I did NOT say that certain minorities have a higher propensity for crime. I said that there is a higher incidence of criminal convictions among certain minorities. That is a DIFFERENT ISSUE ENTIRELY from what you are stating.

However the fact remains that is the case and both the EEOC and the courts have determined that some arbitrary employment standards do indeed have a disparate impact on certain protected groups.

If you'd take the time to actually read my post, you'd notice I was explaining to funcdoc that he does not have a disparate impact claim.

And while I don't know the details of this conviction, I tend to believe that for most jobs, a 10 year old conviction for an error in judgement at age 19 is irrelevant. We have a sitting President who outgrew some of his youthful indiscretions and errors in judgement.
 
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funcdoc

Guest
Thanks Beth. I was thinking that I have a disparate impact claim. I did not know that it had to be more than one incident. In that case, do I not have any options ? What if there are other similar cases there ? Also, I thought that the conviction needed to be somewhat related to the job ? For example: convicted drug dealer working at a drug store or thief working at a bank ?
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
That depends on state law. Some states will only permit a conviction to play a part in the hiring process if it is connected to the job; some place a time limit on it; some do not address the issue at all.
 

Beth3

Senior Member
funcdoc, now we're getting into State law issues. My State expressely prohibits discrimination based upon criminal conviction unless the crime is substantially related to the job.

For example, you could automatically rule out a pedophile for consideration for any job dealing with children (teacher, school bus driver, day care worker, etc.) or an embezzler for consideration for a loan officer with a bank. I do not know if Alabama has a similar law, but you can call your State's DOL or equal rights division and inquire.

On the disparate impact issue, you might want to do some research via the internet - we're getting into some pretty weighty legal issues here, along with federal court rulings and EEOC decisions. If the EEOC is investigating your complaint, I would fully expect that one of the issues they're looking into is whether the employer has "no convictions" hiring policy that would indeed have a disparate impact.
 
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retertoooo

Guest
OH krap disparate impact...geez you people are really sickening.

What about saying that if black parents dont care about teaching their kids not to commit crimes then dont complain if you cant get equal opportunity.

It still is lowering standards for black people and that offends me......

AS AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!!
 
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funcdoc

Guest
retertooo

It has nothing to do with lowering standards for black applicants. I just feel like it (the conviction) has nothing to do with the job that I was extremely qualified for. My parents did a great job in raising me. I just made a one-time ill advised decision. I did not have a history of theft. Never happened before 1991; Never happened since 1991. I was on probation until 1996 and never had another problem. Yes it happened and yes I paid for it. How long should I pay for it ? Should I get the chair ? I'm glad that you have never made a mistake in your life. I just pray that you never make a similar mistake. Since you have such strong feelings about this matter, it would be interesting to see how you would judge yourself.
 
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funcdoc

Guest
retertooo

It has nothing to do with lowering standards for black applicants. I just feel like it (the conviction) has nothing to do with the job that I was extremely qualified for. My parents did a great job in raising me. I just made a one-time ill advised decision. I did not have a history of theft. Never happened before 1991; Never happened since 1991. I was on probation until 1996 and never had another problem. Yes it happened and yes I paid for it. How long should I pay for it ? Should I get the chair ? I'm glad that you have never made a mistake in your life. I just pray that you never make a similar mistake. Since you have such strong feelings about this matter, it would be interesting to see how you would judge yourself.
 

Beth3

Senior Member
rentertooo, your opinion or mine on the validity of disparate impact isn't relevant. We're discussing points of law here and their potential relvance to funcdoc's situation.
 
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funcdoc

Guest
Thanks again, Beth. All the research that I have done seems to point in my favor. I found that EEOC has said that you can not use a criminal conviction alone to disqualify an applicant. I also read that if the conviction is to be used to disqualify an applicant,
then consideration should given to:

the age of the applicant at the time of the offense

the length of time that has elasped since the offense

the nature of the offense

the relevance of the offense to the job that is sought
 
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retertoooo

Guest
will both of you cut this krap out......

you are wasting everyones time, on such garbage.


This would be my argument to funcdoc: we have No people on our staff with criminal backgrounds so why should we make an execption for you...

'cause your Black???????

Krap like this CAUSES RACISM!
 
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funcdoc

Guest
retertoooo,

My argument would be that first of all, I don't want any exceptions. I just want to be judged on "JOB QUALIFICATIONS". There is no policy requiring that their employees do not have a felony. In fact, their are some employees of all colors there that have felonies. How would you like it if you didn't get a job because someone had pictures of you being a little too "friendly" with the neighbor's pet ? Ridulous huh ? How relevant is that to the job ? I would feel the same way about this no matter what color I was. I am not racist all, but you seem to be.
 

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