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Employee "wanting" to be fired

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JAB040

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

The manager of a retail store has an employee that has been demoted from Asst. Mgr. (this is documented) and still works in the store. The, now, former Asst. Mgr. has the attitude and actions of wishing to be fired so he may obtain UIB. His goal as even he told the Mgr. is to be fired to get UIB. The employee is consistently late (by at least 30 min to one hour), on the cellphone during working hours conducting personal business while sitting in the men's toilet room, balks anytime mgmt asks employee to perform required and work-related activities, etc. The manager knows the employee can be fired, but is timid to do so because the employee will file for, AND GET, UIB.

1. How can this ineffective employee be fired and insure he DOES NOT obtain UIB?
2. What other tools can be used to punish this employee if/when he does go to GA Unemployment Svcs seeking and/or gets UIB?

Thank you for your time and guidance.
 


OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
When the employee violates policy, write him up. The write ups serve as documentation. Unless you are planning on lying at a hearing, you tell the truth and present your supporting documentation.
 

commentator

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

The manager of a retail store has an employee that has been demoted from Asst. Mgr. (this is documented) and still works in the store. The, now, former Asst. Mgr. has the attitude and actions of wishing to be fired so he may obtain UIB. His goal as even he told the Mgr. is to be fired to get UIB. The employee is consistently late (by at least 30 min to one hour), on the cellphone during working hours conducting personal business while sitting in the men's toilet room, balks anytime mgmt asks employee to perform required and work-related activities, etc. The manager knows the employee can be fired, but is timid to do so because the employee will file for, AND GET, UIB.

1. How can this ineffective employee be fired and insure he DOES NOT obtain UIB?
2. What other tools can be used to punish this employee if/when he does go to GA Unemployment Svcs seeking and/or gets UIB?

Thank you for your time and guidance.
I strenuously disagree with the bolded phrase above. No, he won't get UIB, if you go about this situation intelligently. Being stupid enough to tell the manager he WANTS to be fired is the first wrong thing he's done. Be sure this conversation was documented, place a notation in his file. Then, deal with the violations, clearly and with professionalism.

Be sure the employer has firm policies in place, for example, that there is a policy against using his cell phone during working hours, or a policy about lateness over so many minutes, so many times, and that violations of these policies can result in termination. In other words, make sure that the stupid employee knows that if he continues to do this (being late, for example) he is in great danger of termination. Make sure he is warned, and try to get his signature on at least one warning.

Be careful not to fall into the "kitchen sink" trap. This is the situation sometimes seen by the unemployment system where a person is trying to get fired, and he violates so many rules and does so many bad things that there is no one big outstanding issue, and the inquiry indicates that the employee was fired for everything in the world "...and the kitchen sink," and there is no clear cut clearly documented misconduct reason for the termination. I suggest you address the tardiness, which is a very easy clean clear cut reason to terminate, having given warnings, watched the employee carefully, and having a documented tardiness policy. Even though he's doing all sorts of other little things, stay with the tardiness, give warnings, keep records, and then fire for this one reason only.

What they are looking for is "Did this employee have the opportunity to change this behavior and keep his job and he voluntarily chose to violate the policy again, even knowing that he could be terminated for it?" See? It's his choice to do that which he knows will get him fired.

Be careful also that if, when you tell him he's terminated, if he goes off and curses you, screams, throws things, has to be removed from the premises by the police, that you do not then tell the employment office that he was fired because of this behavior, or for insubordination or something of this nature. Keep the issue of his firing related to that one reason only, the tardiness, or the mis-use of the cell phone in violation of the policy, what ever you have given him warnings about, and dealt with multiple times. Clean clearcut consistently enforced policies which all the employees of the business are aware of, and progressive consistent discipline for employees who violate the policies are the best defenses against terminated employees being able to get approved for unemployment benefits.

As to punishing him beyond firing him and keeping him from drawing unemployment benefits, let me be clear. Anyone has the right to file an unemployment claim, any time. This is not something you can ever stop someone from doing. However, there will be an inquiry, and he will not be granted benefits without an investigation and a decison and appeal process. You will need to participate in this process and present your documentation of the reason why the person was terminated, and that you did have a valid, misconduct reason for the termination.

As for further punishment, some states, and I believe GA may be one of them, have mandates where a person is not permitted to receive any kind of public assistance (such as Food stamps) immediately after they have been fired for good cause (as determined by the unemployment filing process) or have voluntarily quit a job. But otherwise, keeping him from drawing unemployment benefits is about as rude as you can get to him. Be smart, and you will be able to outsmart this person who is obviously under the delusion that all he has to be is fired, and he's approved for unemployment. That's NOT the case at all.
 
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commentator

Senior Member
In my years of working in the unemployment system, I have been accused of being both "pro-claimant" and also "pro-employer" But actually, the advice is the same for both parties. It seems that here on this forum, it is more frequently the former employee who is asking. But if an employer rolls through and asks how can I stop a former employee from receiving benefits, the information is pretty much the same because it is to be hoped that the laws will be applied justly. (Is this too much to hope for?)

Our experienced HR people usually know all this stuff. I've known HR professionals who never had a fired employee who was approved to draw benefits from them, simply because they dotted their "t's" and crossed their "i's" and got everything in order to show they had good reasons for termination when they terminated. But I've also counseled many former employees who were fired for many reasons and then were approved.

Billing employers for unemployment taxes and having to explain to them why the claimant had been approved was also interesting. "But we found out after she was fired that this employee was embezzling from us!" "But he was charged with child molesting!" "But he attacked the supervisor when told he had been fired!" All approved to draw, for various reasons.

If this is a large retail chain store, the HR policies are already firmly in place, no junior level manager is going to have much say about whether or not the person is terminated, or what policies will be used for the termination. The large companies often do not even deal with their own unemployment issues, preferring to contract them out to a private consulting firm.

If this is a nosey and disgruntled co worker, they now know a little more about unemployment insurance than the guy who's trying to get fired. Maybe they'll wise him up. Or make the co worker feel better.
 
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AJStarr

Junior Member
The biggest problem here is proving it.

Write-ups aren't proof. I have been written up for things on every job I've ever had that I never did in the first place, and refused to sign them all because of it. If this employee refuses to sign a write-up, then goes into court and claims they didn't do it, you're going to need some serious hardcore evidence like a video camera monitoring the workplace.

I have had employers who wanted me gone because I wouldn't put up with their snobbish, holier-than-thou attitude, and they would write me up for things when I WASN'T EVEN IN THE BUILDING.

I also had a co-worker once who was demoted and fired from a job for several reasons (all untrue cause he's my brother-in-law and we both worked there, boss was a sniveling, whiny rich ***.) ANYWAY... long story short, he filed for unemployment. They called the boss... the boss told them all the lies. They wanted proof... and there were no write-ups of any sort. Boss man got fined heavily over it, BIL got 6 months of unemployment on the former boss' tab because of it.

So, it does work both ways, in both cases... you need to have rock solid, bloody knife in the hand proof to win that one.
 

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