Employer Appeals to Texas Workforce benefit decision?

[Allysa]

Texas

So not too long ago I got let go by Best Buy. I was there a little over 2 years. They suddenly let me go and I was informed by a cousin to apply for benefits. The investigator assigned to me came to a decision a few weeks after I applied and received all the info from Best Buy and STILL deemed that I was able to get benefits due to law reference section 207.044 of the Texas Unemployment Compensation Act which states:

207.044. DISCHARGE FOR MISCONDUCT. (a) An individual
is disqualified for benefits if the individual was discharged for
misconduct connected with the individual's last work.
(b) Disqualification under this section continues until the
individual has returned to employment and:
(1) worked for six weeks; or
(2) earned wages equal to six times the individual's
benefit amount.

So according to Texas Workforce, I was "fired" and not let go or laid off. BUT, they state in their decision is this:

Our investigation found that some of your actions on the job may have been considered misconduct. However, the incident your employer fired you for was not considered misconduct connected with the work.

SO I was fired apparently for an incident that I'm not sure of and was never put on suspension for or anything of the like. The appeal packet I received has a few papers of informal signed discussions over some incidents I didn't understand and had learned from that they documented. I'm not sure what premise they are going by to revoke the benefits I did gain which was only one month's worth till I found a suitable new job. So I've not been receiving benefits for almost a month now because I don't need them. I have a hearing in 2 days though on the appeal and I'm not sure what I should do to make sure that they don't try to regain the benefits I received or try to garnish wages using old info and try blaming it on informal misconduct that happened years ago or one that happened recently that I have no clue as to what it is. I've tried to contact the investigator who made the decision but she has not returned the 3 phone calls I've sent for the past 4 days. Anyone have suggestions as to how I should handle this?

 

[commentator]

You are VERY MUCH overthinking this business, Allysa. What happened was that you were discharged for some reason that your employer provided the unemployment system. The ajudicator looked over what you said happened, and what they said happened, and determined that you did not commit misconduct sufficient to justify them firing you. You were awarded benefit, with what is called the Initial Decision, and paid the benefits you had already qualified for. You found another job in the interim and stopped applying for benefits.

When an initial decision is made, either party can appeal the decision and if they do so, a second decision is made. This decision is made after a hearing, either in person or by telephone, at which both parties may be represented and the initial decision is either affirmed or overturned.

Usually a big employer like BB will have a management consulting group which appeals each and every unemployment claim that is approved. This has nothing to do with the merits or validity of your claim, but that if they appeal every one of them, like the blind hog hunting acorns, occasionally they'll get one overturned. They do this, the consulting firm offers this service because every time someone gets approved to draw unemployment benefits from their company, it costs them a little in raised unemployment tax rates. It's nothing personal, they just don't want to have higher rates.

In order to draw benefits when you are terminated, you must show that the employer did not have a valid misconduct reason to terminate you. That you did your best, that you did not deliberately do something wrong, that you always did your job to the best of your abilities, and that you did not know that your behavior on the date you were terminated would result in your being fired. You wanted to keep the job and did it to the best of your abilities. (Notice a theme developing here?)

Since the claim was initially approved, it appears that the way you told the story the first time worked great. You should essentially stick with it. FORGET ABOUT HAVING TO ARGUE ANYTHING! This is an agency hearing, you do not have to get up and argue your case citing Texas unemployment law and deny any claims they make about you and dramatically prove them wrong before the jury amen. This will just be a group of people before an appeals referee. First they will have their story presented as to why the terminated you, what happened on the last day before they told you that you were terminated.

Then you will tell your side of what happened. As I said, what you said before has worked, stick to it. It is NOT necessary to mention that you had, in addition to the issue for which they fired you, you'd also been written up for absenteeism, or you'd been caught smoking on the premises, etc. This hearing will deal ONLY with the misconduct they claim to have fired you for. Stick closely to the issue.

The hearing officer will lead the discussion. Do not talk while the other party is talking or attempt to be argumentative. Whatever you do, do not try to quote unemployment law to them to clinch your arguments. They know the law, and they do not expect you to. Be polite, respectful, and tell your story briefly and without drama.

Remember what you are trying to portray here. I did my job to the best of my abilities. I did not know that what I did would result in my termination. I was trying my best to be a good employee. This is what I did. I did (or did not) know this was against the rules. I intended to keep my job.

This is all you need to say. Listen carefully and answer any questions that the appeals officer may ask you. Do not break in while the other party is speaking, even if they come up with some spectacular whopping lie. Deal with it afterward when it is your turn to speak.

It is certainly worth your time and money to appear at this hearing to defend yourself. You were awarded benefits on the first decision. This means your case is fairly good. If you don't show, the chances you'd lose and have to repay the money are much greater. And unemployment is granted not based on need. They don't care that you have already found the job and just needed a little of the money. They'd still come after you to get it back if you lose the hearing appeal. So attend it and win it, why don't you.

Regardless of what others might tell you here on this site and other places, do not try to read and interpret the unemployment law cited. Do not try to use legal terms or couch your argument in flowery brilliant legalese language. Just show for the hearing, and tell what happened, from your point of view, simply and quietly. This will be far more impressive. They do thousands of these hearings a week. You are not supposed to know all the ins and outs of the law or to need legal representation to get you through them. The employer has exercised his right to appeal, simply because they appeal them all, not because of any particular cruelty toward you.Persist, and win in the appeal hearing too and this matter will be over.

 

[Allysa]

Thank you soooo much for this insight. It really helps in calming my nerves and keep me focused on what I am to do at this hearing. It also helps me understand what to expect. I was scared and confused cause I've never been through something like this at all and to even have BB try to appeal just to make a point or make my life miserable (which i know they dont care or really know what letting me go or 'fired' did to me) is a scary experience. I'll do my best to stand strong at the hearing and I'll update once I get the hearing's findings. Again thank you for the reply!

 

[commentator]

Being terminated is never a pleasant experience. But many times people find that it shoves them forward in a direction they truly needed to go. Good luck in the hearing, and hopefully you can look back on this someday and realize good things came from this experience.

 

[Allysa]

*Sigh* So the hearing didn't go to well. I finally found out why they discharged me. It took over a month for deliberations at Best Buy for their decision when they finally made it and they didn't follow policy protocols in suspension for such incidents like they were supposed to hence as to why I didn't know why they removed me in the first place and thought it was a layoff. I made a note to the hearing officer of lack of protocol not followed, communication, and indiscrepancies that best buy stated. The policy they stated I didn't follow was not lined out well and I realize is only skimmed through when first being hired due to the pressure of just signing the document to just be hired and have a job. These policies change alot and I made note to the officer that these policies SHOULD be made as a yearly refresher to be reviewed by EVERYONE while these policies are not laid out easily to access. I really had no idea that the policy was in there till I was given a copy to read which happens to be a copy of the original I signed. Had I consciously known that this policy was there (because face it, I can't memorize every policy a company has), I would have not even made actions that led to this. Now I have to wait for a decision and if they revoke the benefits I will have to repay them.

 

[commentator]

It is greatly in your favor that you received no warnings that you had violated company procedure and that you did not know that your job was in jeopardy if you continued to do this. Unless it is a violation of company policy that is going to be considered GROSS misconduct, (something so bad that anyone should have reasonably known it was not okay to do it) such as borrowing money from the till, or taking merchandise home with you to try out, the reasonable thing for them to do would have been to give you at least one warning before they discharged you for violating the policy. Yes, true, you are responsible for knowing about any policy that you have signed off on. But in the real world, if you had no idea that you were doing the wrong thing, and were given no feedback and no opportunity to change your behavior and keep your job, that does not usually rise to the level of misconduct sufficient to keep you from drawing benefits. Don't give up hope yet.

 

[Allysa]

Thank you again for your words. I just hope the officer sees this too. All I can do is wait for the answer. Not sure how I will find out about the decision either. I was informed that I can appeal this decision if it rules not in my favor. I will try to fight again, if I am revoked and pressure the fact that I didn't know my job was in jeopardy considering it took over a month for them to make the decision and didn't suspend me in the first place if it was a grossly bad policy that I had broken. I do remember one tidbit when I was let go from best buy. I asked if the decision came from above or higher ranks. My general manager said no, then told me that HE made the decision to let me go. Today at the hearing, he pointed out on the papers, that a higher rank had decided to let me go, not him. But its he said she said and I cannot prove anything about that. But it still all points to policy not carried out as well on their end. I just hope me pointing it out was enough.

 

[commentator]

Relax, it's done now. You have done your best, and you will just have to wait and see. There is another appeal, but decisions are rarely overturned in this third appeal, which is simply a request for a review from the board of review. They tend to look only at very unusual new evidence or where the appeals referee has made the decision without appropriately following unemployment law and policy.

You should hear within a few days by letter and it will tell you that your initial decision approving benefits was either upheld or changed to a denial. You will be told that you have so many days, usually about 15 to appeal the decision if you are denied. You send it back in with a request for appeal. That's it. There are no more hearings, no more arguments.

It matters not one blink who said what or who did what at this point, so move on.

 

[BigMouthWino]

What policy did you violate specifically?

It's hard not to note that you went to great pains in your writing to avoid mentioning what they claim you did or did not do.

 

[commentator]

At this point, it truly does not matter. The die is cast.

 

[Allysa]

So they sided with best buy. unless i appeal, i will have to pay the 1 month of benefits i received. Means, 956 odd some dollars will have to be paid back. they felt i should have "memorized" policy and known it. im kind of livid at this point. Yet I was advised though by texas workforce to still appeal.

to answer an earlier question, i exchanged a personal item to an acquaintance of mine, i was taking a 15 minute break which we cannot clock out for as well as quoting policy which stated that if i had SOLD an item on premises, i would have been immediately suspended pending the investigation which was NOT followed and took over a month before they came to a decision, all the while the managers assured me nothing would come of it (which I thought it had since it took so long and was by then out of my mind). but since i was given a raise only a month before, i assumed i was being laid off cause they approved it and realized, "oh wait, shes getting 10$ an hour? let her go and hire a cheaper associate" sort of deal since most associates made $8.50 or $9 an hour on average. in other words, my actions were not grossly misconduct and therefore should have not been fired at all due to them not following proper procedure and took so long in the first place. so i appealed again stating all of this. i dont know if it will be enough but if they didnt follow procedure and was considered not a gross misconduct due to that, then its their fault.

 

[commentator]

Put all this in your written request for an appeal. Send it in in a timely manner. Don't worry excessively about the repayment yet. You're nowhere near having to repay. So do the appeal, let it play out.

 

[Allysa]

i did. i did it nearly immediately. i had until the 14th to appeal and i appealed the 4th. i stated everything i stated here and even pointed out those inconsistencies with the store not following procedure over the policy i supposedly violated and how convenient how i had just gotten a raise and then let go. i also stated how we cannot clock out for 15 minute breaks and was attempting to take care of the personal situation during that time. I agree, i could have warned management that i had to handle something, but i felt i was not doing anything wrong with the exchange due to not even knowing the part of the policy they blame me for breaking. It was a simple, "Hey nice to see you, here's my ooold personalized item, still works, enjoy and seeya around." sort of situation. quite frankly i've seen that between associates in the HUB more times than i could count. is that breaking policy if it is? cause its an exchange and ive seen even managers do it. course the he said/she said scenario wont work without proof, i know. but an exchange? is that grossly breaking policy? im not selling their items, nor constantly to make a buck for myself. i WANTED my job. so ill have to wait and see.