Employers/applications ask if I have done PTI... illegal questions?!?

[MonarchX]

What is the name of your state? South Carolina, but will be working in North Carolina

I have a career center in my university and everywhere it says that asking about arrests, charges, and such is an illegal question UNLESS the job is security related. Its legal to ask about convictions.

I have been charged once with minor in possession of alcohol. I conducted Alcohol Diversion Program (its like PRE- PTI. I can still do PTI if I get charged again for something little).

The problem is that almost job applications ask "Have you ever done a PTI or a similar program?" and its an illegal question. They won't look at your application if you don't fill it out completely.

What should I answer? YES? NO? I answer NO because these jobs are not security related. Many of them are internships at banks (jobs not related dealing with cash) such as Bank of America and Wachovia.

From what I know a regular criminal background will not show ADP or PTI unless the company has some special security privileges. Could big corps such as Bank of America find out if I have conducted ADP and lied on my application? What should I do if I asked that question during an interview? My career advser said to simply say "My record is clean" and if they insist to find out about PTI then say "I am willing to answer the question if you provide me with a sufficient reason as to how it may impact my working performance" or something like that.

They also ALL ask for race, ethnicity, and even age! I thought it was all illegal to ask!? I am white male, so I don't have problems with that really.

 

[ecmst12]

It is never a good idea to lie on an application.

It's not illegal to ASK about any of those things. It may be illegal to base a hiring decision on the answer, but that's not the same thing. And I'm not even sure it's illegal to base hiring decisions on arrests etc, but that varies by state. They HAVE to ask about age to the extent that they need to verify you are at least 18 and are legally able to work at the job. But I don't think your career advisor is giving you good advice at any rate.

 

[MonarchX]

It is never a good idea to lie on an application.

It's not illegal to ASK about any of those things. It may be illegal to base a hiring decision on the answer, but that's not the same thing. And I'm not even sure it's illegal to base hiring decisions on arrests etc, but that varies by state. They HAVE to ask about age to the extent that they need to verify you are at least 18 and are legally able to work at the job. But I don't think your career advisor is giving you good advice at any rate.

Its definitely illegal to base your hiring decision based on arrests because arrests don't mean squat. You could be at the wrong time at the wrong place. Convictions is what they ask about. ADP and PTI keep your record clean for corporate eyes specifically for that reason.. or else why do them if anyone can access that info?

Its also illegal to ask about being arrested or detained during an interview. Leaving it blank on an application looks too suspicious...

I am not as much concerned about them asking a question as I am about them having an ability to check if I have done PTI or ADP.

 

[MonarchX]

La bump! I truly need to know if employers can find out if I ever did ADP or PTI legally if the job is NOT security related.

 

[ecmst12]

Since you have already said that you think you know better then anyone else here, people may be reluctant to help you. However, there is no one good answer to your question anyway - not all background checks are created equal. If you went through the court system at all, then it's a matter of public record and it's possible that an employer could find out. That's why I said you should be truthful - always assume they could find it out on their own. And while it may or may not be legal to refuse to hire someone because of an arrest or program, it's DEFINITELY legal to refuse to hire someone for lying on their job application.

 

[MonarchX]

Since you have already said that you think you know better then anyone else here, people may be reluctant to help you. However, there is no one good answer to your question anyway - not all background checks are created equal. If you went through the court system at all, then it's a matter of public record and it's possible that an employer could find out. That's why I said you should be truthful - always assume they could find it out on their own. And while it may or may not be legal to refuse to hire someone because of an arrest or program, it's DEFINITELY legal to refuse to hire someone for lying on their job application.

Or I could pretend to be silly and say "PTI is for any small crime, while ADP is only for alcohol. Thus, I did not consider it to be same as PTI"

I am 100% sure that none of these companies would hire me if I will answer YES. Is that fair? Why did I do ADP then? Its supposed to SEAL your record?

And I wasn't arrested, only ticketed, so I was never in a newspaper.

This is what it says:

"If a probationary period or pre-trial diversion program is successfully completed, are dismissed and considered by the court to have never happened. These cases are not publicly available"

 

[xylene]

What the heck is PTI?

Consider moving to another state. I have applied for many jobs and never been asked about this (PTI). Or arrests for that matter.

 

[Douglasd]

PTI is Pretrial Intervention. It is usually reserved for non-violent crimes including felonies IF it is your first arrest. Sealing of records is not automatic. After successful completion of PTI sentence requirements (probation) you must have your attorney file the necessary paperwork in the original court district you were convicted in.

Most applications I have seen asked if you have ever been convicted of any crimes or plead guilty to, or entered a plea of no contest, including felonies. Wal-Mart for example has a rather ambiguous questioning series on their applications. First it asks if you have ever been convicted of any crime. A little further in it asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony or violent crime. So even if your felony conviction was for a non-violent crime, they are still categorizing you in with violent felonious acts.

 

[VeronicaLodge]

why are you so certain they wont hire you if you answer yes? we hire people all the time with criminal backgrounds and arrests, depending on the nature of the offense and what we are hiring for; however, we never hire anyone that lies on the application.

 

[MonarchX]

PTI is Pretrial Intervention. It is usually reserved for non-violent crimes including felonies IF it is your first arrest. Sealing of records is not automatic. After successful completion of PTI sentence requirements (probation) you must have your attorney file the necessary paperwork in the original court district you were convicted in.

Most applications I have seen asked if you have ever been convicted of any crimes or plead guilty to, or entered a plea of no contest, including felonies. Wal-Mart for example has a rather ambiguous questioning series on their applications. First it asks if you have ever been convicted of any crime. A little further in it asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony or violent crime. So even if your felony conviction was for a non-violent crime, they are still categorizing you in with violent felonious acts.

Then ADP is different from PTI. I did not need a lawyer. I was caught with liquor when I was 19 and got a ticket. I asked officers what I can do and they said ADP. I filled out ADP form, took the class, SKIPPED court (I never went to court in my life). There were no lawyers, no felonies, none of that.

So, since application asks if I have done PTI or a program like PTI I can truly say NO because ADP isn't the same. ADP is for 2 charges only "possession of alcohol, possession of small amount of marijuana"

They did NOT put me on any probation and did not do drug tests either.

Its not like PTI...so if it ever comes up I can defend my point.

 

[MonarchX]

why are you so certain they wont hire you if you answer yes? we hire people all the time with criminal backgrounds and arrests, depending on the nature of the offense and what we are hiring for; however, we never hire anyone that lies on the application.

The jobs I apply for hire the very top students. They take 5 out of 12 interviewed, out of 100s applied. I am sure if another candidate close with my achievements answers NO to that question then he will be picked, not I.


Also, if you read the post right above mine, I figured that PTI is not the same as ADP. I didn't do PTI or a program that requires lawyers or probation of ANY kind. I just had to take a class, sign a paper, and my charges were dropped. PTI can be done even by a felon, but ADP is ONLY for small possession of alcohol by minor, and small possession of marijuana. I think other alcohol related charges apply (distribution to minors) to ADP as well.

Quote from ADP document "The case is not publicly available"

So, I am not LYING. The question is about PTI and I did not do PTI or similar because ADP IS different from PTI.

If I get in trouble again I can STILL do PTI.

 

[xylene]

You are applying for the 'tip top' jobs at Wal*Mart?

Look the coortect legal advice is:

It is better to not lie on an application.

You are worrying too much.

 

[VeronicaLodge]

I'm not too sure why you are here or what you are asking, you seem to know exactly what is and is not public record, what your future employer will and will not do, and what is technically accurate or not, so do what you want to do, what do you want from us? are you just wanting us to say "you are right, do that, you will be fine, they will hire you, no worries" ? if so, just type it out to yourself.

 

[MonarchX]

I'm not too sure why you are here or what you are asking, you seem to know exactly what is and is not public record, what your future employer will and will not do, and what is technically accurate or not, so do what you want to do, what do you want from us? are you just wanting us to say "you are right, do that, you will be fine, they will hire you, no worries" ? if so, just type it out to yourself.

I want to know:

1. Why are they asking ILLEGAL questions regarding race, ethnicity, arrests, detains, and SPECIFICALLY information regarding NON-public criminal records in a manner that will forbid you to even be considered for a job IF these illegal questions are unanswered.

2. Can corporations access a record that has been marked specifically as a non-public record?

I know for a fact that questions about arrests, PTIs and such are NOT legal. Questions about CONVICTIONS are legal.

 

[VeronicaLodge]

how would we know why? you'd have to ask them why they are asking.