Fired, difficult to explain (per-diem work)

[sithik]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania, USA

First and foremost, I work in a "at-will" state. I work in Pennsylvania and the "corporate office" is in New York and yes I am an employee not an independant contractor.

I work per-diem (piece rate) and not hourly rate. Now, realistically I'm curious if technically I would have a "start time" and "end time"? I don't want to get an answer like "look in your handbook". As far as end time would go realistically it's whenever I get done with my installations/service calls for the day, and when I am done with my work for the day I do not have to go back to the warehouse and tell them I am done I go straight home, again in the company van.

At any rate, the company lets us take the company owned vans home with us, so in my opinion when I'm in the van (driving home, or even driving to the warehouse to pickup materials, paycheck, etc. I feel as though I'm working. (right or wrong?)

So, onto the background now, I have a 1 year old daughter. My wife works third shift 11pm-7am, my drive to the warehouse takes approximately 20-25 minutes so I am technically driving to the warehouse from 7:30 and arriving at 8am. The reason I state that is due to the fact, my "scheduled" (as in installs/service calls are within a 8-5 timeframe) work day is 8am-5pm would that not classify me as starting my work day at 7:30am and not 8am when I arrive at the warehouse? Needless to say, I arrived at the warehouse today at 8:05am, which being it's a Monday (payday, paperwork turn-in) they would like (more like, expect) us to be at the warehouse early as in 6:30am, again not being paid for that time. I don't get paid drive time, nor anytime I am at the warehouse, I get paid strictly for the installation, service call. The only way I think the company gets around not paying us for the drive time, warehouse time is due to the fact that anyone in the business is realistically getting paid minimum wage no matter how many hours you work because the pay per install/service call is very good, so you would have to "work" more than 80 hours or so a week to not be getting paid minimum wage.

Again, sorry for taking so long to get to the point, but I've told multiple supervisors on multiple occasions that due to my childcare issues (noone being able to watch my daughter) on Mondays I could not make it in any earlier than 8am (which was agreed upon by multiple supervisors throughout my tenure with the company), which on a good drive day is possible. Today being there was a little more congestion than normal I arrived 5 minutes "late" (again there is no real "start" time). So pretty much they essentially said I would be getting suspended for 1 week, which I really didn't think nothing of since I had a job at least. When you get suspended they "exit" you from the van (taking all you personal belongings until the suspension is over) and do a tool inspection (making sure everything is still there and not lost/stolen) when it came time to show them the company paid gas card (which is supposed to be in the van at all times) wasn't in the van and it was at my house (another story entirely and no I didn't use it for my personal vehicle) that is when they literally right after I told them I would have to give it to the supervisor driving me home is when they terminated me.

My 2 questions are, would that constitute me being eligible for unemployment (yes I already filed, but id like some opinions as to if I may be eligible in this situation) and secondly would it constitute any sort of legal action being as though the whole drive time to work in the company vehicle, being classified as working?

Thanks for any comments, suggestions.

 

[cbg]

realistically I'm curious if technically I would have a "start time" and "end time"?

That is entirely up to your employer. The law does not require that you have a defined start and end time; neither does the law prohibit you having a start and end time. So while you may not want the answer, look in your handbook, that is, nonetheless, the correct answer.

so in my opinion when I'm in the van (driving home, or even driving to the warehouse to pickup materials, paycheck, etc. I feel as though I'm working. (right or wrong?)


At least partially wrong. Just because it's a company van does not make it work time. The law is quite clear that the law does not require that you be paid for your drive to and from work, regardless of whether you are in a company vehicle or not. On the other hand, if you are driving from one job site to another, that should be considered work time.

However, the bottom line is as long as you are being paid at least minimum wage for every hour that you work, your employer is legal. Barring a bona fide contract that specifically says otherwise, you are never owed more than the number of hours actually worked times the higher of state or Federal minimum wage.

I've told multiple supervisors on multiple occasions that due to my childcare issues (noone being able to watch my daughter) on Mondays I could not make it in any earlier than 8am

Your child care issues are not your employer's problem. If they want you there earlier than 8 am, you'd better have back up child care because they can require you to be there earlier than 8 am no matter how many supervisors have told you otherwise.

Only the state can say if you will be eligible for UI or not.

 

[xylene]

My 2 questions are, would that constitute me being eligible for unemployment (yes I already filed, but id like some opinions as to if I may be eligible in this situation)

Were you already denied and you are looking for an appeal or are you just worrying pending a decision?

If you are (or were) denied, the denial will clearly state the reasons, and you will be instrcuted how to appeal administratively, and if need be legally.

and secondly would it constitute any sort of legal action being as though the whole drive time to work in the company vehicle, being classified as working?

Commuting time is not paid work, company vehicle or not.

For starters that would create a really bizarre incentive to live far from work...

 

[sithik]

realistically I'm curious if technically I would have a "start time" and "end time"?

That is entirely up to your employer. The law does not require that you have a defined start and end time; neither does the law prohibit you having a start and end time. So while you may not want the answer, look in your handbook, that is, nonetheless, the correct answer.

so in my opinion when I'm in the van (driving home, or even driving to the warehouse to pickup materials, paycheck, etc. I feel as though I'm working. (right or wrong?)


At least partially wrong. Just because it's a company van does not make it work time. The law is quite clear that the law does not require that you be paid for your drive to and from work, regardless of whether you are in a company vehicle or not. On the other hand, if you are driving from one job site to another, that should be considered work time.

However, the bottom line is as long as you are being paid at least minimum wage for every hour that you work, your employer is legal. Barring a bona fide contract that specifically says otherwise, you are never owed more than the number of hours actually worked times the higher of state or Federal minimum wage.

I've told multiple supervisors on multiple occasions that due to my childcare issues (noone being able to watch my daughter) on Mondays I could not make it in any earlier than 8am

Your child care issues are not your employer's problem. If they want you there earlier than 8 am, you'd better have back up child care because they can require you to be there earlier than 8 am no matter how many supervisors have told you otherwise.

Only the state can say if you will be eligible for UI or not.

Ok, my only question is how can they EXPECT you on your own personal time to be at the "warehouse" at 6:30am without any pay. Granted im wrong again being that im being paid "minimum wage", bleh, I understand that childcare issues arent my employers problem, but if your saying to me that in my handbook there is no mention of having to be at the warehouse before 8am on a "payday, monday whatever" they would be wrong? or...

 

[sithik]

Were you already denied and you are looking for an appeal or are you just worrying pending a decision?

If you are (or were) denied, the denial will clearly state the reasons, and you will be instrcuted how to appeal administratively, and if need be legally.



Commuting time is not paid work, company vehicle or not.

For starters that would create a really bizarre incentive to live far from work...

No, I did not get denied yet, I was simply curious if I may qualify for it, which like the other poster said would be up to the state but im trying to get a optimistic outlook.

Well, I wasn't stating it so I can be paid, not in the slightest, I meant in the sense of they fired me for not "working" at 8am (im considering working as in being at the warehouse) I assumed me driving a company vehichle which realistically being "on-call" since we have company cellphones in the van I would be "working".

 

[sithik]

Also, just so these posts don't get mixed up, would (again if the company is going to use the reasons that were the original suspension (not being there at 8am) and then the reason for the firing (not having the company gas card in the vehicle), i mean i understand its "at-will" but I mean is that just?

I'm a fairly smart person and I would say, the answer is unfortunately yes it is legal. I understand how much money employers would lose if things weren't as easy as they are for employers, but damn it's almost as though they can do whatever they want.

 

[cbg]

Employers are not even required to HAVE a handbook, let alone to list each and every possible circumstance they might possibly require of you.

 

[sithik]

Employers are not even required to HAVE a handbook, let alone to list each and every possible circumstance they might possibly require of you.

You know, it's funny you bring that up because my previous employer who I left to get this job had an amazing handbook listing every little thing and the steps of corrective action.

The funny part, is I've asked on multiple occasions about handbooks and they always say "you can check it out online", and after today talking to a few technicians they can't remember ever receiving handbooks.

It's rather funny as well that after reading ALOT of posts about people being fired on here and a few other boards almost every single reason that (being a layman) would say is unjust other than simple theft issues (which amazingly people thing is unjust) employers are able to fire people because they don't like the way they look. Sad, but true unfortunately. I wasn't really asking is this was unjust I know my state is at-will. I was primarily concerned with no income coming in and trying to find a better job but with no money and a 1 year old and another on the way if unemployment comp would be able to help at least until I find another job. This day in age that could be weeks or months.

 

[cbg]

You know, it's funny you bring that up because my previous employer who I left to get this job had an amazing handbook listing every little thing and the steps of corrective action.

And I guarantee you, unless it was so large that you needed a backhoe to lift it, within 6 months of its publication something came up that was not covered in the handbook. You may or may not be aware of it unless you were in HR or Legal, but I'll put money on it having happened.

 

[sithik]

You know, it's funny you bring that up because my previous employer who I left to get this job had an amazing handbook listing every little thing and the steps of corrective action.

And I guarantee you, unless it was so large that you needed a backhoe to lift it, within 6 months of its publication something came up that was not covered in the handbook. You may or may not be aware of it unless you were in HR or Legal, but I'll put money on it having happened.

You know, I wouldn't doubt it, but it had the silliest of stuff in it like smoking in non-smoking areas, taking extending bathroom breaks etc. It wasn't a large company it was basically a family owned manufacturer of "peg-hooks" basically a local company doing global business.

Thats the kind of things every company should HAVE to provide.

 

[cbg]

I don't agree. And I've already told you why.