Fired for using paid sick time?

[norow]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? GA.

Can I be fired for using paid sick time? At my job we're given sick leave based on our seniority (it is an agreement/union job). We receive so much sick time per year that rolls over year to year if we don't use it. There are different standards in different departments, which seems a bit unfair but I understand it's legal. The problem is our department doesn't have a clearly defined attendance policy, and all our agreement says is that the company can request a doctor's note for our sick days. Nowhere in our department rules and regulations does it specify how much time is excessive and lays out the penalties for going over these undefined marks. Yet we have had people reprimanded and dismissed because of excessive absenteeism.

Is this right? It seems to me that reprimanding someone for using a benefit the company provides and has been agreed upon by their union is unethical, and legally questionable. And it also seems unethical and legally questionable to hold someone to a standard they don't know they're being held to, meaning, how do any of us know what is excessive if it's not written down anywhere (and yes, we have asked to have the attendance policy put in writing, to no avail)?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

The law does not specifically require sick days, therefore it does not specifically regulate them. This does not apply when other non DOL statutes are in effect, such as for ill CDL holders.

 

[sandyclaus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? GA.

Can I be fired for using paid sick time? At my job we're given sick leave based on our seniority (it is an agreement/union job). We receive so much sick time per year that rolls over year to year if we don't use it. There are different standards in different departments, which seems a bit unfair but I understand it's legal. The problem is our department doesn't have a clearly defined attendance policy, and all our agreement says is that the company can request a doctor's note for our sick days. Nowhere in our department rules and regulations does it specify how much time is excessive and lays out the penalties for going over these undefined marks. Yet we have had people reprimanded and dismissed because of excessive absenteeism.

Is this right? It seems to me that reprimanding someone for using a benefit the company provides and has been agreed upon by their union is unethical, and legally questionable. And it also seems unethical and legally questionable to hold someone to a standard they don't know they're being held to, meaning, how do any of us know what is excessive if it's not written down anywhere (and yes, we have asked to have the attendance policy put in writing, to no avail)?

Sick time is sick time. I suspect that if you are using that time for something OTHER than being sick, then you would likely be subjected to disciplinary action up to and including dismissal. That could qualify as absenteeism, especially for those abusing the paid time off as something to use whenever one wants a paid day off but isn't sick. Doesn't matter if there is so much paid sick time available that it rolls over - if you're not sick, you shouldn't be using that time as such.

 

[ecmst12]

The only law that sometimes regulates sick leave and penalties for taking it is FMLA. If FMLA doesn't apply, the law doesn't care. Take it up with your union.

 

[Proserpina]

I'm mildly curious; exactly how long were you absent over say, 6 months?

 

[swalsh411]

Most people have taken a "mental health" day or two at some point. It sounds like you are being excessive about it and using up every hour of your sick time.

 

[eerelations]

Only your union can help you with this.

 

[cbg]

Yes, it is legal. It's not even an indefensible practice in many cases.

Paid sick time is available for one purpose and one purpose only - making you whole when you are legitimately too ill to work. It is not there to supplement your vacation time. It is not an entitlement. If employees are using it just because it's there and they're not actually ill, then that's a perfectly legal and not at all unethical reason to discipline someone.

 

[norow]

I haven't been reprimanded or fired due to being off sick. I've actually come in clearly sick because I don't want to be harassed, and I'm sitting on hundreds of hours of sick time I haven't used.

I understand sick time is supposed to be for illness, but I'm curious how a manager can determine who's actually sick versus who's just supplementing vacation leave with their sick time.

I also understand that sick leave isn't a requirement, thus the company is free to do with it what they want. But in this case, we have an agreement that provides us with sick leave as part of our overall compensation; it isn't a company benefit. It doesn't seem right that the company can agree to paid sick leave, then set random, unclear standards regarding our usage of that time. I understand there has to be some attendance policy, but when talking about paid leave as part of our overall compensation and a condition of our employment, it would seem to me at the very least there should be some clear standard.

 

[eerelations]

We would have to be psychic to determine how the managers at your company decide who is really sick and who isn't. Unfortunately, we are not psychic.

 

[norow]

I'd really like more responses to this post. Not to be rude, but I found many of the earlier responses to be a bit terse and not very helpful.

It would seem to me that it would be legally questionable for an employer to grant a benefit and then penalize an employee for using it. Reason being, if you don't want or can't afford for an employee to be off for six days a year, then don't give employees six paid days of sick leave a year. I can understand having an attendance policy, but not having one and using a vague, unspecified standard by which to determine "attendance issues" doesn't seem ethical.

I think debating this in the context of sick leave is tricky because many people have a hard time relating to other people's illnesses, either because "they don't get sick" or because they would suck it up and go to work anyway. But this same thing would apply even if we were talking about something less controversial, like vacation leave. Vacation isn't required by law, either, and yet it would strike people as odd if someone was reprimanded or fired for using "too much" of their vacation time.

 

[ecmst12]

You received accurate information 3 months ago. The answers are not going to change just because you don't like them.

 

[cbg]

But this is a legal board. We're not here to debate what an employer should do. The question is what an employer may legally do.

The answer to, is it legal, is Yes. In most (not quite all, but most) situations, it IS legal to be fired for excessive use of sick time, even if paid, and the employer is the one who gets to decide what is excessive. There is no law anywhere in the US that says, if the benefit is paid, you can't fire someone for using it.

You are free to lobby your elected representatives to make it illegal if that is what you're after. But until such time as a bill making it illegal is passed into law, it remains legal unless FMLA is involved.

 

[justalayman]

I'd really like more responses to this post. Not to be rude, but I found many of the earlier responses to be a bit terse and not very helpful.

and 100% legally accurate so what more is there to say?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

You are in a union. Past Practice dictates what your department can do if there is not a fixed contract article covering it. Consult your BA or steward.