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  1. #1
    jane4321 is offline Junior Member
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    Is this insubordination?

    What is the name of your state? California. 2 days ago I was fired for insubordination. I asked my former manager exactly how I was insubordinate and he stated that it had to do with a conversation I had with another employee. I asked him how he knew about the conversation and why it was considered insubordinate. He stated that someone said I had a conversation with them in which I spoke poorly of management (him). He also stated that other team leads had made mention to him of issues which he did not clarify as to what they said. I took my final check and left the job site. Later I contacted the human resources department and spoke with the district manager who is currently investigating the issue. I was never verbally coached on any previous issues. I also never made any negative statements about my manager.
    He never asked me if I made any such statements. Instead he just stated that he was thinking over the issue for a weekend and decided to terminate me immediately for subordination without asking if what someone said I had said was true. Does he have the right to take this person's hearsay and automatically turn it into truth? Shouldn't he have coached me previously if there were supposed issues concerning my conduct at work? I have always done what was asked of me and at the beginning of my employment my manager said that he had plans for me to move up into a higher position. Do I have the right to take any legal action? Was this a wrongful termination? If not why? This termination totally took me and other workers by suprise. My district manager said he felt awful about what happened and was going to look into it.


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  2. #2
    john123456 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jane4321
    What is the name of your state? California. 2 days ago I was fired for insubordination. I asked my former manager exactly how I was insubordinate and he stated that it had to do with a conversation I had with another employee. I asked him how he knew about the conversation and why it was considered insubordinate. He stated that someone said I had a conversation with them in which I spoke poorly of management (him). He also stated that other team leads had made mention to him of issues which he did not clarify as to what they said. I took my final check and left the job site. Later I contacted the human resources department and spoke with the district manager who is currently investigating the issue. I was never verbally coached on any previous issues. I also never made any negative statements about my manager.
    He never asked me if I made any such statements. Instead he just stated that he was thinking over the issue for a weekend and decided to terminate me immediately for subordination without asking if what someone said I had said was true. Does he have the right to take this person's hearsay and automatically turn it into truth? Shouldn't he have coached me previously if there were supposed issues concerning my conduct at work? I have always done what was asked of me and at the beginning of my employment my manager said that he had plans for me to move up into a higher position. Do I have the right to take any legal action? Was this a wrongful termination? If not why? This termination totally took me and other workers by suprise. My district manager said he felt awful about what happened and was going to look into it.


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  3. #3
    Beth3 is offline Senior Member
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    Does he have the right to take this person's hearsay and automatically turn it into truth? Yes. While that is seldom an advisable thing to do, he may do so if he wishes.

    Shouldn't he have coached me previously if there were supposed issues concerning my conduct at work? Generally, yes, that is the accepted and proper way to do things but he isn't required to.

    I have always done what was asked of me and at the beginning of my employment my manager said that he had plans for me to move up into a higher position. Do I have the right to take any legal action? Since your manager hasn't done anything illegal, there is no legal action to take.

    Was this a wrongful termination? No. Not even close.

    If not why? Because there are no laws that prohibit your manager from terminating you for this reason.

    This termination totally took me and other workers by suprise. My district manager said he felt awful about what happened and was going to look into it. Then perhaps he will reverse the decision but that will be entirely his call. The decision to fire you may have been very unfair but it was not illegal.
    A person, who is nice to you, but rude to a waiter, is not a nice person. (This is very important. Pay attention. It never fails.)
  4. #4
    jane4321 is offline Junior Member
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    Is this insubordination?

    If someone fire's you for insubordination what exactly does that mean? Can someone take what I have said and twisted it around to tell my manager it was completely something else and I be fired because of it? Isn't this a violation of my rights? Shouldn't the person who approached my manager with this information be held liable for manipulating what I said? Doesn't a manager have an obligation to find out the truth before just firing someone? Don't they need to witness what they called insubordinate behavior to make the decision to fire me? How can they just take what someone else said as the truth? The person who said these things breaks policy on a daily basis and in our handbook it states that her offenses are terminable in nature? Can't this prove that the trustworthiness of this person is in question? It seems as though a good employee can be fired for doing nothing except their job... I don't understand how it can be legal to fire someone when they have done everything their manager has asked them, never been late, and never even had the conversation someone says they had. Isn't that other person defacing my name and isn't this an example of slander?
  5. #5
    Beth3 is offline Senior Member
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    If someone fire's you for insubordination what exactly does that mean? The generally accepted definition is failure to accord a member of management the proper respect or recognition. In specific terms, it often means refusing to follow the orders of a superior.

    Can someone take what I have said and twisted it around to tell my manager it was completely something else and I be fired because of it? Yes.

    Isn't this a violation of my rights? Legally, no.

    Shouldn't the person who approached my manager with this information be held liable for manipulating what I said? Ideally, yes.

    Doesn't a manager have an obligation to find out the truth before just firing someone? A legal obligation, no. In terms of good management practices, yes.

    Don't they need to witness what they called insubordinate behavior to make the decision to fire me? No.

    How can they just take what someone else said as the truth? Because no law prohibits them from doing so.

    The person who said these things breaks policy on a daily basis and in our handbook it states that her offenses are terminable in nature? Can't this prove that the trustworthiness of this person is in question? If management so chooses, yes.

    Isn't that other person defacing my name and isn't this an example of slander? Perhaps. It would depend upon exactly what was said and whether you can prove the individual was lying or negligent in his statements.

    I do understand your anger and frustration but the bottom line here is that you were an "at will" employee, as are most of us, which means that you can be terminated for any reason except a specifically prohibited one. The circumstances of your termination don't even come close to any of those.
    A person, who is nice to you, but rude to a waiter, is not a nice person. (This is very important. Pay attention. It never fails.)
  6. #6
    jane4321 is offline Junior Member
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    I understand that I was an "at will" employee and I know that means I can be fired at any time with no prior warning, however it is clear to me that this firing was a retalitory act. And I cannot believe that an act of revenge is protected under the law??? Prior to this firing there never has been any indication of any dissatisfaction with my performance at work. I believe that he reacted impulsively assuming that I would just disappear. However I am left with this tarnished work image that projectes me as a negative person. I have never been negative to anyone. Is there no justice for me??? I think he is a manager with very questionable behaviors. Is there nothing that protects me from him???
  7. #7
    Beth3 is offline Senior Member
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    I understand that I was an "at will" employee and I know that means I can be fired at any time with no prior warning, however it is clear to me that this firing was a retalitory act. And I cannot believe that an act of revenge is protected under the law??? That a depends entirely on the circumstances. Once again, there isn't anything in your situation that suggests anything illegal has taken place, including prohibited retaliation.

    Prior to this firing there never has been any indication of any dissatisfaction with my performance at work. I believe that he reacted impulsively assuming that I would just disappear. However I am left with this tarnished work image that projectes me as a negative person. I have never been negative to anyone. Is there no justice for me??? I think he is a manager with very questionable behaviors. Is there nothing that protects me from him??? Jane, this is entirely an internal matter within your company. I've told you as many ways as I can that nothing illegal has transpired, even if the situation is completely unfair.
    A person, who is nice to you, but rude to a waiter, is not a nice person. (This is very important. Pay attention. It never fails.)

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