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  1. #1
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Michigan: Quitting after a demotion ?'s

    What is the name of your state? Michigan

    Several questions:

    - If demoted, without cause, without explanation, without any documentation (loss of executive status, loss of significant portion of salary), is that actionable in and of itself?

    - Should I decide to terminate my employment as a result of this by quitting, does that eliminate the possibility of receiving unemployment benefits?
  2. #2
    seniorjudge Guest
    Q: If demoted, without cause, without explanation, without any documentation (loss of executive status, loss of significant portion of salary), is that actionable in and of itself?

    A: No.


    Q: Should I decide to terminate my employment as a result of this by quitting, does that eliminate the possibility of receiving unemployment benefits?

    A: Yes.
  3. #3
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for the rapid reply. It's appreciated, and I'll pass it along.
  4. #4
    cbg
    cbg is offline Senior Member
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    1.) No.

    2.) Probably.

    To expand, a demotion is ONLY going to be actionable if you can show that it was done BECAUSE OF your race, religion, national origin etc. (AND you have received a right-to-sue letter from the EEOC or the Michigan Department of Civil Rights) or if you can show that it was done in retaliation for your applying for or utilizing a right or benefit protected under the law (FMLA, workers comp, joining a union, reporting unsafe activity to OSHA etc.). Outside of that, a demotion is not actionable with or without cause. Or, I should say, whether or not you know the cause; NO employer is going to take that kind of an action without SOME reason.

    Few if any states are going to pay you to quit your job because of a pay cut. The reasoning is, if you stay on the job you have SOME pay; if you quit you have NO pay. Their purpose is to provide income for those who lose their job, and their income, through no fault of their own, not for those who quit because they don't like an action their employer has taken (no matter how justified they may be). It is possible, however, that if the pay cut was drastic enough, you might be eligible for partial UI benefits IF YOU STAY ON THE JOB. Only a Michigan UI adjudicator can say for certain; every state is different. But based on my experience, anyone who quits their job for any reason short of sexual harassment or illegal discrimination, is asking to have their UI benefits denied.
  5. #5
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    I suppose I should amplify the situation given your posting, cbg, and thank you as well for replying, and hopefully your follow-up reply to this post.

    Hypothetically speaking, let's assume that the following situations may have taken place:

    - The (male) owner of the (privately held) company was hypothetically discovered in, well, let's call it "a compromising position" with a (female) peer executive.

    - They were recognized, the person that saw them was recognized, and this occurs less than two weeks later.

    The person that saw them (and to clarify, this isn't me this happened to, I'm writing on behalf of someone who's internet-clueless in the hopes of helping them) has no write-ups, has a stellar record with the company, has company-leading sales percentages, and is generally an outstanding employee. Their review wasn't even a review - it was a ranting by the owner, with zero backup, zero facts, zero documentation, absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond open hostility.

    The person is also friends (not great friends, but still friends) with the owner's wife.

    So, given that, coupled with what was witnessed, it is very easy to believe that this is retaliatory in nature, or perhaps even a pre-emptive maneuver to "send a message" to keep silent about what was witnessed.

    Now...given that hypothetical information, would "good cause" come into play in any manner at least in the interest of keeping afloat while potentially pursuing a legal solution?
  6. #6
    seniorjudge Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by homenumber
    ...
    - The (male) owner of the (privately held) company was hypothetically discovered in, well, let's call it "a compromising position" with a (female) peer executive....
    Was the female demoted by the male?
  7. #7
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorjudge
    Was the female demoted by the male?
    The person demoted was the witnessing party to the events between the owner and another female executive, not a participant.
  8. #8
    cbg
    cbg is offline Senior Member
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    No. Under the circumstances you describe,the demotion would still not give the individual any legal cause of action, and it still would not, in my opinion, be "good cause" to quit and still receive UI benefits.

    I'm sorry, it seems unfair, but it simply does not meet the qualifications.
  9. #9
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbg
    No. Under the circumstances you describe,the demotion would still not give the individual any legal cause of action, and it still would not, in my opinion, be "good cause" to quit and still receive UI benefits.

    I'm sorry, it seems unfair, but it simply does not meet the qualifications.
    Sad, but sort of what I was expecting to hear.

    Again, I'll pass it along, and thank you again for your time.
  10. #10
    seniorjudge Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by homenumber
    The person demoted was the witnessing party to the events between the owner and another female executive, not a participant.
    Was this an accidental witnessing?
  11. #11
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorjudge
    Was this an accidental witnessing?
    [chuckle] What, you want the Penthouse Forums version?

    Seriously though, yes, it was an accidental witnessing - stumbled upon the two of them in a hallway together while attending a convention and out to dinner, where the owner and other executive had been drinking and apparently got a little indiscrete.
  12. #12
    seniorjudge Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by homenumber
    [chuckle] What, you want the Penthouse Forums version?

    Seriously though, yes, it was an accidental witnessing - stumbled upon the two of them in a hallway together while attending a convention and out to dinner, where the owner and other executive had been drinking and apparently got a little indiscrete.
    Q: What, you want the Penthouse Forums version?

    A: Yes, please and with video.
  13. #13
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorjudge
    Q: What, you want the Penthouse Forums version?

    A: Yes, please and with video.
    Neither are worth it, I assure you.
  14. #14
    seniorjudge Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by homenumber
    Neither are worth it, I assure you.
    Oh, well...back to Desperate Housewives....
  15. #15
    homenumber is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorjudge
    Oh, well...back to Desperate Housewives....
    Sorry

    What would an "accidental" versus (I assume) "on purpose" viewing have to do with anything?

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