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luckyw0w

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I work for a company that buys foreclosed properties at auction. They require that their employees Enter vacant homes ( through unlocked windows as they usually never have lock box codes) and assess damages. If the home is occupied they require that we try to take a picture of the interior through an uncovered window (while on the occupants property).
I always say that the windows are covered, and could not get a picture. I know that this is a violation of privacy from classes I have taken. I also feel that it is just wrong, these poor people are having a horrible enough day and some jerk coming on their property and taking pictures only makes it worse.

What laws are being broken here? Who will be penalized for taking a pictures through an open window while trespassing an someones property. If I get fired for not taking these pictures what actions can I take, if any?

Thanks for any qualified advice.
 


OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
I suggest you knock on the door before walking up to windows in an occupied house, that your employer does not yet have title to.
 

commentator

Senior Member
You can be fired for any reason. You are in an "at will" state. Can you then (under the circumstances you describe) sue your employer for wrongful termination? No. Would you be likely to be approved for unemployment insurance benefits(providing you are not a contractor)? Probably yes. Though you are asked to do something that is both dangerous and illegal, you have admittedly been pretending to do it. This raises the question of whether you have tried to solve the problem, or whether you have been doing the job to the best of your abilities.

I strongly suggest you find another job. You are not making your employers happy by never getting the pictures they are asking for, which is probably much better for your health and safety. (Agree, people in foreclosure are apt to be "tetchy" and don't like trespassers.)

But that they want you to do something like this is an indicator that you need another job. But meanwhile, they're not going to be happy with your work, and very well may fire you. You have no legal right to refuse to do what they are asking, even if it is illegal, and expect them to continue to employ you. You have only the right to quit the job. Why not find something else before it happens that you are fired or feel led to quit?
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I'm not sure I agree with all of the above. While I think we'd have to check state specifics to be certain (and please, this is California!) in states that have public policy exceptions it can be considered a wrongful term if you are fired for refusing to do something illegal.

The poster should place an anonymous call to the DLSE and inquire what protections he or she might have. Or discuss it with a local attorney. I don't think this is as straightforward as some of the posts we get.
 

jiggy78

Member
You have a very dangrous job. A tresspasser on my property peeping through my window is going to have to deal with me and my gun.
 

commentator

Senior Member
The thing is, this guy isn't nobly refusing to do what his employer asks him to do because it's illegal. He's lying to his employer and pretending to do what they're asking him to do. Not at all sure they could be sued for wrongful termination if they happened to drive by one of the properties and see the uncovered windows and then fired the employee who told them he couldn't get the pictures because the windows were covered.

In essence, he's doing it, or pretending to do it, and then asking if he can get his employer in trouble for asking him to do it.

Even if he quits the job and then files for unemployment benefits, they're going to ask him what he did to try to resolve the problem before quitting. If he's never done anything except lie to his employers, especially if he's been doing it for quite a while, making them think it was perfectly all right with him, that's not going to be considered any effort to resolve the situation.

If taking such pics through uncovered windows is the only thing he's supposed to do on this job....he needed to turn the job down as soon as he found out what it involved. They could hire you to rob banks or beat up debtors, you know. If the picture taking is only one aspect of his job, then it's something he needs to discuss with the employer, tell them he doesn't feel comfortable doing it, believes it is illegal. And dangerous.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Granted, and I'm not saying he has a slam dunk case. But I do think there is room for doubt that a wrongful term case would be dismissed out of hand in this particular instance. It can't hurt to consult with an attorney. Particularly if he's been illegally trespassing on the property, even if he hasn't broken in to take the pictures his employer wants.
 

luckyw0w

Junior Member
Clarification

I am not looking to sue my employer, I just wanted to know what laws are being broken if any. And whether I could get unemployment to make it until I can find something else.

There is more to the job than taking pictures on the interior. I have to assess the exterior and estimate the total cost of repair needed for the company to get the house back on the market.

When being hired I was told that that and taking exterior pictures from the street and an exterior report was all the job entailed. That I had no problem with. It was only 3 months ago that they started with this whole taking pictures through open windows business. This is an "at will" position though, I know if I refuse that I will lose this crappy job. As a previous poster said, I would rather take a picture of a window with blinds closed and be done than get shot. One town in my territory very bad, and some dealer thinking I am a cop can get me shot. People are having their homes auctioned the day I go, they are usually at their breaking point. Most times they have been dicked around by the bank, screwed out of a loan modification and god knows what else.

My employer is very happy with my reports as far as my estimates for repairs, and knowledge of construction. And people open and close shades and blinds during the day. I take a picture of a window with blinds drawn, that is all that is required.

I am looking for another job. The problem is that after a serious injury and having to leave my chosen field I took the first thing I could find just to keep a roof over my head and food on my table. So the suggestion that I find another job really does not help. The market is limited right now, not as easy as it sounds. As soon as I am offered a job that will help me meet the bare minimum for living I will take it. The amount of human misery I have to see every day is just too much. At this point I will take strip club janitor if it pays a living wage.

I do not want to sue my employer, or get them in trouble. I want to know if I would be able to get unemployment to bridge the gap until I can take the first thing I find, no matter how degrading. Just as long as it does not involve kicking a family out of their home. OR whether I or my employer could be charged with something if there is an issue.
 

commentator

Senior Member
So I'll go over it again with you. If yours is a legitimate take-outs making unemployment covered employer (If not, and you do not have covered wages to set up a claim, everything else is irrelevant, no unemployment) and they fire you....whether you have good prospects of unemployment insurance approval will depend what they fire you for.

If they fire you for lying to them, or refusing to do the job as they told you to do it, and then lying and saying you were doing the job the way they wanted you to....that's really not "refusing to break the law" that's "fired for misrepresenting the way you did the job" or "falsifying work documents." Could come out looking like misconduct. It depends.

If they terminated you,and the reason was that they drove past a house you said you couldn't see into, and they saw that you could see into it, and they told the unemployment office that, you'd counter that before the firing, they had been happy with your work as far as you knew, the way you did your job up to that point. That you did not know that they were unhappy with your job perforance. That you were given no opportunity to change your behavior (start trying harder to see into windows) and keep your job. It certainly isn't a sure thing that you would be approved to draw.

That you were working out of your field, that the job didn't pay nearly as much as you had been making previously, that you took the first job you could get to try to stay off unemployment and be self supporting, those things do not count and have no importance in making the decision to approve benefits.

Once you have accepted a job, you accepted the pay they were paying, as long as it was at least minimum wage. You agreed to accept the nature and conditions of the job and do the things they asked you to do, and you made this your official job. What came before it doesn't really matter in the decisions they'd make on this separation.

If you want to quit the job, that's a horse of another color. In order to be approved after a quit, you have to show that you had a valid work related reason to want to quit the job. It has to be a pretty major one. As I said previously, the first question that would be asked is, "What did you do to try to improve the situation before quitting?" Inasmuch as you have not discussed the "going up to open windows and taking pictures" before with your employer, or how you felt about situation, you'd not have much ground to stand on here.

How do you know they won't listen to your concerns about this being too dangerous and probably illegal, and say, "That's okay, you're doing fine, just keep doing what you're doing, get as much as you can safely get and we'll be fine with it?" That's what they're going to tell the unemployment office they WOULD have said, you can bet on it. And because you haven't discussed it with them, haven't tried to resolve the problem, just decided you didn't like doing what you were supposed to be doing, after several months of having agreed to do it and having (supposedly) done it, they're going to be believable.

It's sort of the old "my boss slapped my face last November" sort of situation. Your boss slapped you. This was, of itself, improper behavior, would have been a valid reason to quit the job. But you continued to work there for the next ten months. Then, this year in November, you quit the job, saying "My boss slapped me in the face last year." It will not work. You have continued to work at this job, made no effort to change the work requirements or situation. If you now quit because you are afraid the job is too dangerous ( and I certainly agree, it's a dangerous job)but if you quit now, having done it for several months, it's not going to fly unless you have tried to work with your employer and make the job less dangerous, in other words, tell them you aren't comfortable trying to get the pictures of the inside of the houses from the yard.

All these reasons make me want to tell you to find another job before you leave this one. If you don't, do not by any means expect to sail into the unemployment system and tell them you were asked to do something illegal and therefore assume you will be approved for unemployment insurance benefits.

I can't say whether you would or wouldn't, but your chances will depend on many factors and are not great as you describe the situation here. If they fire you, you'll have a lot better chance of getting approved. So I'd keep working and be looking hard for other jobs while working. If you were approved for benefits, it will take several weeks, maybe months for the issues to be settled and you to be approved, even if you are. Much easier just to go somewhere else and start working.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
The last question in your first post was, if you are fired what action can you take?

If you are fired, it is *possible* - not a slam dunk, but possible - that it would qualify as a wrongful term. It would, as indicated above, depend on exactly what you are fired for and how your state defines public policy exceptions to at will. IF you are fired and you have reason to believe it is because you are not breaking into the houses and taking the pictures your employer wants you to take, an action you can take is discuss with an attorney whether or not the as yet unknown details justify a wrongful term claim. IF they do, then an action you can take is file a claim with the state DLSE. Or a lawsuit, depending on the advise of the lawyer.
 

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