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Not Fair

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big luke

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana. I was starting to feel ill at work. I went to my doctor on my off days and she suggested I see a cardiologist because I have an irregular heart beat and I take medications that can cause other side effects. I called off work and told my manager I would probably be off for a while for all these test I would be taking and because I was feeling really bad. Human Resources eventually sent me an FMLA form and gave me till Sept. 28th to have done. I explained that my doctor was out of office and would not be back for that week and I had an appointment to see her and get the results of all my test on Oct. 4th. One week after the due date they gave me. They termed me. I filed for unemployment and began receiving benefits. The company appealed and the judge found in their favor and said I had to pay back the 8,000.00 I had received. I appealed and have a hearing on 5/17/13. How can the say they had just cause to term me when I could not get my doctor to fill out the form and I told them I could not get my results until Oct. 4th?
 


cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
And you're getting around to asking this...in May?

Fair is not the issue. The issue is legal.

You haven't said when this all happened, but the FMLA statute is very specific about this. You have 15 days from the day they give you the paper work to have it completed. The statute does not say, but if your doctor is out of town and you won't get your results till later you get more time. It says, you have 15 days. The employer is NOT obligated to give you an extension - it's up to you to work with the doctor's office to get at least provisional certification.

As I said, it's unclear whether you got the 15 days or not. If you did, then it's a shame your doctor's office wouldn't work with you but that's not your employer's fault or issue. If you didn't, you can contact the US DOL (they are the regulatory agency for FMLA) and see what they say.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
If you are unable to work for medical reasons, then you don't qualify for unemployment.
 
You have to stay up on things you signed before your employment. Lots of employers these days have employees sign agreements that specify what can and can not be done within certain time frames. If you have 15 days from the time you received the FMLA then you should have had another doctor or told them how important it was to have him sign this within certain time frame. You are now on the hook for repayment of benefits. I would try and get a letter from the doctor explaining the situation and appeal. See if there is any provision for an extension of the 15 day period. Unfortunately lots of employers know how to work the system better than the employees. Good Luck.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
RM - read my post. The 15 days is statutory. While the employer could, if they so chose, provide an extension, they are not obligated to do so and have already indicated that they are unwilling to.
 

commentator

Senior Member
You were out of work due to your health issues. You were told to get the paperwork back in to the company to request FMLA by xxx date. You told them you couldn't because your doctor was out of town. They terminated you. They were totally legally able to do this. (read cbg's post)

You filed for unemployment insurance saying you had been out of work for health reasons (with a doctor's certification) and that you had been terminated while on medical leave and under a doctor's care. You were approved, and began drawing benefits when you were released by your doctor. You probably had to give the unemployment system a statement from your doctor saying you were treated and that you were now able and available to work. Okay, that would likely get you approved. You began drawing unemployment benefits.

Then your employer appealed this decision. They said that you failed to give them the requested paperwork verifying that you were on medical leave during the 15 day FMLA application period. They were under no obligation to hold your position for you or give you more time to get your medical paperwork back to them.

Now you are having a hearing to determine whether they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you for unemployment purposes. Probably they are saying they terminated you because you were absent without providing them a requested medical excuse within their deadline period. FMLA and unemployment insurance are not governed by the same laws, not really connected. This may be to your advantage. There's nothing in unemployment law about this 15 day deadline to get in your request for FMLA. Either you were sick, with medical proof, or you weren't.

When you have the hearing, the employer is going to say you were terminated for failing to get the FMLA request in in a timely manner. The big huge elephant in the room issue is going to be why did you not ask the cardiologist, or your regular doctor's office if they could not fill out the paperwork? Usually when a doctor is off or out of town, they have a partner or substitute for him/her who could complete it based on your records, or even if this was totally impossible, why did you not get an appointment with another doctor? It sounds as though you had been seeing this doctor for some time before you had to be off. It sounds like at her behest, you saw a cardiologist and had a number of tests.

I guess you just did not realize that you had to have the paper in to your employer by the requested date, thought it was not at your convenience, and didn't take it too seriously when they gave you that deadline. Your employer, in turn, saw an opportunity to deal with an uncooperative and seemingly unhealthy employee and get rid of you legally. But don't despair. While it was legal for them to fire you, you still have a slight chance to carry this off without losing your unemployment appeal.

In unemployment, if you are out of work due to medical reasons with a doctor's excuse, you should be able to get approved for unemployment benefits. Unemployment law sort of looks at a legitimately verified illness as a circumstance beyond your control. Perhaps a statement from your doctor NOW that you were being treated and were off work under her care during that time when you were fired would help you regarding unemployment approval. Even though you might have to go through a lot to get it, it would be a good thing to do.

Though they're always going to come back to "We asked him to provide us with a medical statement within 15 days, and he did not," still you can say you were really ill at that time, and here's the documentation to prove that, and you tell the hearing officer how you explained to them why you thought it would be all right to wait a few days to get the statement to them.

If they prevail in the hearing, you will not only stop receiving benefits, you will have an $8000 overpayment. But
this is a "non-fraud" overpayment. You drew the benefits in good faith, being fully eligible for them by decision at the time you received them. So they will be much more lenient about repayment, will probably not demand the money immediately, or garnish your paychecks when you return to work. In some instances, you can request a waiver of this overpayment because of financial hardship. I'd like to hear how this comes out.
 
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