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Paying back moving $$$

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roxy100

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

If you got laid off or fired (not for cause) just days before you were to fulfill a moving allowance commitment have you seen a company actually try to collect? I'd find it hard to believe a jury wouldn't see right through the employer's motivation to can someone like that and then try to collect back moving money seems "not in good faith" wouldn't you think?
 


roxy100

Junior Member
Laid off doesn't have to pay back but fired does in her case. To me that gives any company too much power since at-will it's simple just fire. Why would any company lay off when they can fire?

I would lean towards payback in most cases but a few days prior fired with no cause? You can just as easily lay off. But then again the company probably doesn't have to pay unemployment and can ask for $$ back. Why wouldn't they fire? Seems clear cut to me from their standpoint.

Seems like any "contract" starts out rigged in favor of the employer.
 

xylene

Senior Member
Seems like any "contract" starts out rigged in favor of the employer.
That doesn't mean illegal or invalid.

We would need to read the ACTUAL contract and learn exactly how and why the company separated the employee.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Fired for cause is different then fired for no cause. Fired for no cause is essentially the same as laid off.
 

roxy100

Junior Member
Fired for cause is different then fired for no cause. Fired for no cause is essentially the same as laid off.
Do you have examples of "no cause"? I was thinking the same thing only because when you research unemployment and the like they seem to imply that you can collect even being fired as long as it's not for stealing laptops or something really bad.
 

roxy100

Junior Member
That doesn't mean illegal or invalid.

We would need to read the ACTUAL contract and learn exactly how and why the company separated the employee.
I agree. You should always have a lawyer review anything you sign. Would have helped those people stuck in resetting ARM's possibly.

I think in the cases of people signing employment agreements or other contracts like moving $$ a couple years ago you couldn't consider being fired. But now-a-days it's becoming more the norm just to can for no reason because well, HR can and move on.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Just for the record, laid off does not mean what most people use the phrase to mean. Unless there is a reasonable chance of recall, you have not been laid off, whatever the reason. Layoff means, "probably temporary". Whether you were let go because the company didn't have enough money to keep you, or because you were stealing laptops, unless there is a reasonable belief that you might be recalled to work, you were fired.

Now that we have that out of the way, NO employer lays someone off for no reason. It might be a good reason, a bad reason, or even an illegal reason. But no employer wakes up in the morning and says, I've got nothing to do today, I think I'll fire someone. You may not know what the reason is, but I guarantee there is one. It is not cost effective for an employer to fire someone just because he can - it costs a great deal of money to replace and train a new employee.

However, for unemployment purposes, occasionally you hear of "cause" and "no cause" reasons. In that case, "no cause" would mean because a department was dissolved; the company closed; the employee was RIF'd or laid off (as defined above); or for some other business-related reason that is unrelated to the behavior of the employee in question. The possibility also exists, for unemployment reasons only, that the employee might have done something or failed to do something for which the employer has cause to fire them, but does not disqualify them for unemployment benefits. This is also sometimes considered a "no cause" termination (though the employer will most likely disagree). Examples of this are state specific.

I posted this before I saw your last post, Roxy. I don't know where you got the idea that HR is generally the one to decide whether or not to fire someone, but that is NOT the case. It is the employee's manager who makes that decision.
 

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