Post Dated firing at end of Suspension

[kmeyer37]

I live in the state of Minnesota, and work in Wisconsin. Recently i was called in for a drug screening regarding damage to property that had happened several months prior. The drug screening was a rapid test, and the initial results read positive. Upon entering work the next day i was immediately suspended (may 29th), and the HR director told me the test would be sent to the lab for analysis. After 8 days (June 6th) i was contacted by the HR director and was told that my drug test had come back negative, but that I was fired because i had not reported the property damage. 3 days later (june 9th) i received a letter (dated june 7th) from my employer stating that I was fired effective May 29th. I then received another letter from the insurance company stating my policy was no longer effective after May 31st. I had dental work done during the week that i was suspended that will now not be covered by my insurance. I assumed that i was still employed and had medical coverage because I had not been told otherwise, and was in contact with the HR department of my employer. My question is, was it lawful for my employer to terminate my employment in a pre-dated manner after being suspended for 8 days? Also, was it lawful for them to cancel my insurance coverage in a pre-dated manner the same way they fired me? Any help is very much appreciated as i likely cannot afford to hire a lawyer now that i am on unemployment.

- Kris from Minnesota

 

[LdiJ]

I live in the state of Minnesota, and work in Wisconsin. Recently i was called in for a drug screening regarding damage to property that had happened several months prior. The drug screening was a rapid test, and the initial results read positive. Upon entering work the next day i was immediately suspended (may 29th), and the HR director told me the test would be sent to the lab for analysis. After 8 days (June 6th) i was contacted by the HR director and was told that my drug test had come back negative, but that I was fired because i had not reported the property damage. 3 days later (june 9th) i received a letter (dated june 7th) from my employer stating that I was fired effective May 29th. I then received another letter from the insurance company stating my policy was no longer effective after May 31st. I had dental work done during the week that i was suspended that will now not be covered by my insurance. I assumed that i was still employed and had medical coverage because I had not been told otherwise, and was in contact with the HR department of my employer. My question is, was it lawful for my employer to terminate my employment in a pre-dated manner after being suspended for 8 days? Also, was it lawful for them to cancel my insurance coverage in a pre-dated manner the same way they fired me? Any help is very much appreciated as i likely cannot afford to hire a lawyer now that i am on unemployment.

- Kris from Minnesota

I am pretty sure that pre-dating the termination of your insurance coverage was not proper. I have no idea about the pre-dating of your termination of employment. Hopefully someone will be able to give you specific advice as to where to lodge a complaint.

 

[cbg]

The cancellation of your health insurance depends on what the plan document states. However, if your termination was effective May 29th and your coverage was cancelled effective May 31, that's almost certainly legal.

It is always wise to assume, when you begin a suspension, that termination may follow and manage accordingly. It was NOT wise to assume you were still employed and it was even less wise to assume your insurance was still effective.

Do I think they managed this situation effectively? No. Did they violate any laws? Not that I can see.

Check your insurance plan document - NOT your employee handbook - for what it says about the effective date of cancellation.

 

[kmeyer37]

Thank you for you input Cbg, it is much appreciated. I will follow through accordingly. Admin can consider the thread closed.

 

[cbg]

I very strongly suspect that what you will find is that insurance is cancelled effective the last day of the month after termination. Which is exactly what happened.

 

[ecmst12]

You will be able to sign up for Cobra to cover the dental work you had done, if the bill will be more than the cost of the premium for a month obviously that is the best way to go.

 

[Willlyjo]

Thank you for you input Cbg, it is much appreciated. I will follow through accordingly. Admin can consider the thread closed.

Did you pay for your insurance via payroll deductions? Did your former employer offer you the option to continue COBRA benefits (not sure if this is a Federal benefit, but thought I would ask anyway)? It seems unusual that you can be fired one day and your insurance benefits run out a couple days later.

Since when does a suspension equate to a termination and an immediate loss of insurance benefits? Obviously, you were suspended on May 29th and received notification on June 6th that you have been fired. I refuse to believe that your insurance is not obligated to pay for your dental treatment (pursuant to your benefits) that was received before your notification letter that you were fired.

I sincerely believe, IMHO, that since your employer took until June 6th to tell you that you were terminated and then as an 'afterthought', decided to send anther letter to tell you that such termination was effective as of May 29th, you have cause to dispute the determination that your coverage was not effective when you received your dental treatment.

You could probably handle this matter in small claims court if you wanted to pursue it.

 

[cbg]

COBRA is a Federal benefit, but the employer is still WELL within the legal time frame to offer it. If elected, it will be retroactive to the date of cancellation.

And just for the benefit of the OP, William Joseph does not administer employer benefits for a living. I do. His opinions on what the law ought to say do not reflect the actual law.

The fact that he did not know if COBRA was a Federal benefit, which is Benefits 101 for those who actually know what they are talking about, is in itself evidence of his ability to correctly discern the law in this area.

 

[ecmst12]

Depending on how the plan is written, insurance can end at the end of the month following termination, the end of the month BEFORE termination, or on the day of termination. All are legal, just depends on how the plan is written. And dating the termination as the last day worked is certainly legal.

 

[Willlyjo]

Depending on how the plan is written, insurance can end at the end of the month following termination, the end of the month BEFORE termination, or on the day of termination. All are legal, just depends on how the plan is written. And dating the termination as the last day worked is certainly legal.

I've never heard of insurance ending at the end of a month before termination. I really don't think that there are too many (if any) policies that reflect this language. However, I personally know via experience as an employee, that all such policies that I've ever been a part of, have terminated at the end of the month following termination. I'd really like for the OP to tell us what her policy states.

 

[cbg]

And I know via experience as an employer that ecmst12 is correct.

You are correct in one respect - the least common of the possibilities is termination the month before termination. But in this case, that would have been termination as of April 30. It is QUITE common, given a termination after a suspension, to count the first day of suspension as the termination date. It is also QUITE legal to do it that way and would, in this instance, mean that insurance cancellation was the last day of the month in which termination occurred.

Just as William Joseph tells us it should.

 

[cbg]

Because the fact that COBRA is a Federal benefit is such a basic concept to anyone who knows benefits and quite a lot of people who don't, that an admission that you didn't know that is the same thing as an admission that you don't know what you're talking about. I have employees on work visas from Europe and Asia who have been in the US for six months to a year who know that. But you don't.

I have already admitted that they are rare. Rare is not non-existent. They do occur. They do not occur as often as date of termination, or last day of the month following termination, but they do occur.

And once again, that is not what happened here, no matter how you try to dance around it. It is absolutely legal and very, very common for a termination to be dated the way this one was.

As for expert, when you have 35 years direct experience at the administration of employer benefits, then you can come back and tell me about experts. Until then, William Joseph, I call them as I see them, and what I see is that William Joseph doesn't know beans about this aspect of law.

 

[cbg]

You go right on thinking that. But if the OP comes back here and tells us that a judge ordered that the termination be forward-dated and the insurance continued another month, he'd better be prepared to scan in the court order or I will call him a liar. Although since he's not the one here arguing with me, I acknowledge that that may be unfair.

You see, William Joseph, unlike some people I could mention, I KNOW what the law says. I am not guessing, like some people named William Joseph.

 

[Willlyjo]

You go right on thinking that. But if the OP comes back here and tells us that a judge ordered that the termination be forward-dated and the insurance continued another month, he'd better be prepared to scan in the court order or I will call him a liar. Although since he's not the one here arguing with me, I acknowledge that that may be unfair.

You see, William Joseph, unlike some people I could mention, I KNOW what the law says. I am not guessing, like some people named William Joseph.

So cite the law that says an employer must use the first day of an employee's suspension as the termination date in order to avoid paying out insurance benefits to an employee who wasn't notified of his/her termination until 8 days later. Who is guessing here? I'm merely giving my opinion that such employee under these circumstances would have reasonable cause to dispute it and get their benefits paid, is all.

 

[cbg]

You suffer from reading comprehension problems, don't you, William Joseph?

I didn't say the employer must use the first day of suspension as termination. I said that it was legal and common for him to do so. The employer may use any day he wishes to terminate, barring a legally binding and enforceable contract that spells out what day can be used.

And it is Section 125 of the IRS code that says the employer MUST terminate coverage on the day that is specified in the plan document.