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Pretextual Discharge - How to prove?

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TexasEmployee

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Texas

My wife filed a workers compensation claim on May 28, ’04 for a back injury sustained while working in a Dental Office. One June 15th the company officially announced a merger. On June 22nd my wife was terminated for violating company policy.

One June 20th my wife called in so she could attend a physical therapy appt. On this day a fellow employee who was being treated for a tooth problem by the Dentist needed a refill prescription of pain medication. She talked with the Doctor who approved it, but she failed to get a written prescription before their departure that day.

One June 21st, the fellow employee called in sick due to excessive tooth pain. She phoned my wife later in the day and asked if my wife, a treatment counselor who routinely calls in prescriptions, would phone it in for her since the Doctor approved it the previous day, so my wife did. The center manager was sitting next to my wife when she received the phone call from the employee as well as when she called the pharmacy. Once my wife phoned in the prescription, the manager asked what she had done but that was the last mention of it. The next morning she was terminated. The fellow employee clearly states the Doctor approved the refill, and was going to testify on my wife’s behalf at the Workers Compensation hearing, the employer contested the original finding, but the employer failed to call in for the hearing, so the original findings stood.

My questions…

I have looked but have been unable to find the answer; in Texas do employees have a right to information once they are no longer employed? The termination sheet states they obtained a statement from the Doctor, which I would like to see, but they have told me they will not give me a copy without a court order?

Do supervisors have a legal responsibility to stop employees from violating workplace laws when they have good faith knowledge they are breaking them. In this case its clear the manager knew what my wife was doing, was illegal in their opinion, but did not intervene to stop the illegal act or call the pharmacy to cancel the prescription. Would this in and of itself assist in proving a pretextual discharge?

I have talked to the DEA several times and have received conflicting answers. If in fact what my wife did was not illegal, and her employer stated she was fired for illegal behavior to the Workforce Commission in an attempt to deny unemployment compensation could that be used in a defamation case?
 


BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
TexasEmployee said:
My questions…

I have looked but have been unable to find the answer; in Texas do employees have a right to information once they are no longer employed? The termination sheet states they obtained a statement from the Doctor, which I would like to see, but they have told me they will not give me a copy without a court order?
Why should they give you anything, even the time of day? YOU were not the employee. Also, your wife does not have any inherent right to anything belonging to the company, including her personal file. If she wants that information, she needs to contact her doctor.

TexasEmployee said:
Do supervisors have a legal responsibility to stop employees from violating workplace laws when they have good faith knowledge they are breaking them. In this case its clear the manager knew what my wife was doing, was illegal in their opinion, but did not intervene to stop the illegal act or call the pharmacy to cancel the prescription. Would this in and of itself assist in proving a pretextual discharge?
A LEGAL responsibility? NO. Civil Responsibility? No.

TexasEmployee said:
I have talked to the DEA several times and have received conflicting answers. If in fact what my wife did was not illegal, and her employer stated she was fired for illegal behavior to the Workforce Commission in an attempt to deny unemployment compensation could that be used in a defamation case?
No. The employer could very well have believed or still believe that her actions were Illegal.
 

TexasEmployee

Junior Member
Then how does one prove a pretextual discharge? My understanding is if the fact she was on workers compensation was even a remote factor in her termination then its wrong. So would we need to come up with an employee in a similar situation who was given a written warning versus being terminated?
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
TexasEmployee said:
Then how does one prove a pretextual discharge? My understanding is if the fact she was on workers compensation was even a remote factor in her termination then its wrong. So would we need to come up with an employee in a similar situation who was given a written warning versus being terminated?
Do you understand the phrase "AT WILL"?
 

TexasEmployee

Junior Member
I do, but I also understand the term "protected class" and the fact that there are laws to protect people from being terminated for filing a WC claim. My question, which it doesn't seem you can answer, is what does it typically take to prove it.

I don't want to trash you since you volunteer your time to provide your "expertise" to posters on this site, but after reading all of your responses, can you provide anything other than smart ass comments.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
TexasEmployee said:
I do, but I also understand the term "protected class" and the fact that there are laws to protect people from being terminated for filing a WC claim. My question, which it doesn't seem you can answer, is what does it typically take to prove it.

I don't want to trash you since you volunteer your time to provide your "expertise" to posters on this site, but after reading all of your responses, can you provide anything other than smart ass comments.
Actually, yes I can. But not for you. Wait for someone else to explain it to you.
Have a Hap Hap Happy life :D
 

Venus05

Member
Smart Ass??

BelizeBreeze said:
Actually, yes I can. But not for you. Wait for someone else to explain it to you.
Have a Hap Hap Happy life :D
How many alias do you have Belize? This poor guy is without a clue and is 100% right, you are a smart ass, but hey, I don't mind... I am kind of curious as to what the man behind the screen looks like. Could it be that I am intrigued by his quick wit and animal like ways of attack.....GRRRRRRRR....... hmmmmmmm, probably would be interesting in other areas...Cheers to being such a smart ass ;)
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
So would we need to come up with an employee in a similar situation who was given a written warning versus being terminated?

Yes. What your wife (NOT YOU, you have no standing in this whatsoever) would need would be an employee who was similarly situated to her (not just any employee) who had not filed a workers comp claim, committed the same offense, and was not terminated.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
cbg said:
So would we need to come up with an employee in a similar situation who was given a written warning versus being terminated?

Yes. What your wife (NOT YOU, you have no standing in this whatsoever) would need would be an employee who was similarly situated to her (not just any employee) who had not filed a workers comp claim, committed the same offense, and was not terminated.
And, of course, this in and of itself will NOT be sufficient proof of an illegal termination. Nor does it have anything to do with the question of unemployment compensation.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Correct. It is not in and of itself proof. It is, however, what the wife is going to need if she is to have any chance at all of proving pretextual discharge. Even with it she may not win; without it she hasn't a prayer, in my opinion.

Personally, I don't see it. There is nothing in the post that even remotely suggests that she was actually termed for filing a workers comp claim. And I missed the part about defamation and the unemployment office. BB is quite correct on that. If the employer honestly believed that what the wife did was illegal, that cannot be used in a defamation case, and the burden of proof would be on her to prove that the employer was lying. Not, honestly believed what they said (even if they were mistaken). Not, misunderstood. But KNEW that what they were saying was untrue.
 

TexasEmployee

Junior Member
And, of course, this in and of itself will NOT be sufficient proof of an illegal termination. Nor does it have anything to do with the question of unemployment compensation.
I did not have a question about unemployment compensation, the state has already approved that. The basic premise of my question is what it takes to prove an illegal discharge short of someone openly admitting they terminated someone because they filed a WC claim. CBG confirmed my initial reaction, but we both know that is almost next to impossible to provide.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
TexasEmployee said:
I have talked to the DEA several times and have received conflicting answers. If in fact what my wife did was not illegal, and her employer stated she was fired for illegal behavior to the Workforce Commission in an attempt to deny unemployment compensation could that be used in a defamation case?
I decided to edit my reply because, frankly, you're not worth the effort. This entire post has the smell of a search for an excuse and I'm not wasting time on it anylonger. :rolleyes:
 
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TexasEmployee

Junior Member
I decided to edit my reply because, frankly, you're not worth the effort. This entire post has the smell of a search for an excuse and I'm not wasting time on it anylonger.
A liar I am not, and I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not looking for excuses.

Specifically the employer stated my wife "prescribed medication without a liscence" which would obviously be a violation of state law/federal law/company policy. That is not the facts, as the doctor had approved it the day prior.

If the doctor had not approved, she did wrong and deserved to be fired. But, the doctor approved the refill, therefore she did not "prescribe medication w/o a liscence" and did nothing wrong.

Thanks you for your responses.
 

Katy W.

Member
EEOC v. YENKIN-MAJESTIC PAINT CORPORATION, 6th district (Texas):
"Pretext may be shown 'either directly by persuading the [trier of fact] that a discriminatory reason more likely motivated the employer or indirectly by showing that the employer's proffered explanation is unworthy of credence.'" Manzer v. Diamond Shamrock Chemicals Co. , 29 F.3d 1078, 1082 (6th Cir. 1994) (quoting Texas Dep't of Community Affairs v. Burdine , 450 U.S. 248, 256 (1981)). In order to challenge the credibility of an employer's explanation, the plaintiff must show by a preponderance of the evidence: (1) the proffered reasons had no basis in fact; (2) the proffered reasons did not
actually motivate the adverse employment action; or (3) the proffered reasons were insufficient to motivate the adverse employment action. See Manzer 29 F.3d at 1084 (quoting McNabola v. Chicago Transit Authority , 10 F.3d 501, 513 (7th Cir.1993)). "
 

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