Question

[luckoftheirish]

I have a situation I would like some clarification on. I work for a state government law enforcement agency. I've worked here two years and have never had a problem. All of my evaluations are good. Well, in January someone decided to steal an assault rifle from the institution I work in and I was unlucky enough to be assigned to an area that day that was close to the armory. Keep in mind, this agency I work for is well known for its lack of oversight, lax hiring requirements, levels of corruption throughout the management heirarchy, amid plenty of other things. The weapon was missing for almost 5 months and was just barely noticed, so suffice to say the the armorer is facing dismissal. There are no leads and they have no clue where this thing is.

Anyway, I've had two formal interviews with agency criminal investigators and have taken a polygraph (the results are being withheld from me). Considering this agency's reputation, I am concerned they will fire someone to wash their hands of the situation whether that person did it or not. I've seen it numerous times. I've told the truth throughout that I know nothing and have seen nothing related to this incident. If I failed this polygraph, I'm almost certain I will be fired.

I work here to pay for school and support a wife and child. I can't afford to lose this job quite yet. Anyway, if I am fired over this with no proof other than a failed polygraph, do I have any legal recourse? Thank you.

 

[Hot Topic]

So you took a job at an agency that's "well known" for its "lax" hiring requirements, corruption on certain management levels and "plenty of other things." And you've worked there for two years.

You've never had a problem, and your evaluations have been good. Why would you think you failed the polygraph test?

To my knowledge, polygraph tests aren't 100% foolproof and not admissible in court.

It might not hurt to talk to an attorney. Some do pro bono (don't charge for their legal advice). Some of the things you posted should probably be run by a professional.

By the way, why didn't you include the name of your state as requested?

 

[commentator]

commentator

Does your state, whatever it is, have a State Employees Association? If so, are you a member? This would really help you if you were to have further trouble concerning this issue. Your state's Department of Personnel will have the complete guidelines for warnings, offenses, firings, etc. They are who I'd talk to first, just to get a look at the guidelines. You can bet your department heads are reading and following them carefully. Most states do not find it easy to fire employees who've been there for a while with good evaluations, rated successful performers That's one reason state and federal government agencies are so notorious for having bad employees. With civil service regulations, they have a really hard time firing anybody, even when the person has done major misconduct things on tape!

"Not giving me the results of the polygraph" is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Duh. If they told you you'd passed it with flying colors, you probably won't be so concerned, run about worried, decide to "come clean, because they already have you," or any of those things they're hoping you'll do. These were criminal investigators who interviewed you. They well know how to create insecurity.

I think you are wasting a lot of mental anguish here. Because nothing has happened. They probably won't arbitrarily fire you unless there is a lot more that you're not telling us, such as that they have witnesses, records you later sold the gun, or something like this. Unless you really did take the weapon, failing a polygraph in and of itself wouldn't be too big. Most polygraph results are inconclusive, not "Wow, he's SO lying here!" But notice, they have NOT told you you failed the polygraph, have they? Let's let him squirm a little, see if he will fold on us.

Don't fold. Be calm. Do your job, earn your pay, follow the rules, and in the meantime, apply for other jobs either within state government or in the private sector.

 

[ecmst12]

If you are fired, you can apply for unemployment. Unless you are in a union, that would be your only recourse. There would be nothing illegal about such a termination.

 

[luckoftheirish]

To address some statements: I had no idea this agency was so bad initially, or I would have went elsewhere. I assumed law enforcement was law enforcement, but my particular field, I learned, is at the bottom of the barrel.

I did belong to a union, but they are loose and scattered and are not touching this issue whatsoever. They only furnish you a lawyer for your defense if you are ever called to testify. They don't furnish one or even offer assistance for someone like me seeking a mass amount of money.

I have scoured policy and failing a polygraph is a fireable offense. This is what has me so concerned. I do really like the advice about seeking a pro bono attorney, which I have started. Also, if I am sucked into a situation where they give me the option to quit before I'm fired, can I still get unemployment insurance?

The entire reason I'm pushing this is because I've seen some asisine things here. I've seen an inmate sue the state because his meal portions were a few millimeters to small! And he won a multimillion dollar settlement. I know that failing a polygraph is a fireable offense and its set in stone in policy, but if a convicted felon can sue over something as menial as food and win, I figure maybe I have a shot. I'm not an attorney or even somewhat versed in law, but is not the purpose of litigation to challenge unfair (firing) practices even if they are written policy? This spurs change.

 

[commentator]

commentator

If you are given a "quit or be fired" option, always take the "be fired." In every state, once you are fired, the burden of proof they had good cause to terminate you is placed on the employer. If you voluntarily quit, you will not get unemployment benefits easily, because it was YOUR choice to remove yourself from the work situation. If it was their move, they have to show good cause with adequate documentation in order to keep you from receiving unemployment benefits. Key point. They have NOT fired you, written you up or taken any personnel action that I can see other than interviewing you and giving you a polygraph.

I repeat my question. Are you a civil service employee? If so, this makes it twice as difficult for your agency to terminate you. Also, if you have an employee's union and they will provide you with legal assistance in some situations, those are probably the only situations where legal representation is needed. IF you are fired, you can file a grievance and request reinstatement or back pay if you're civil service. But why do you think you could get a large sum of money, particularly when nothing negative has been done to you? You could be fired for any reason, there is no way you can sue them just for firing you, and really no reason to sue them for questioning you.

 

[ecmst12]

What the inmate did has NOTHING to do with employement law. 49 states (we don't know where you are since you haven't complied with the site rules yet but the other one is Montana) follow the at-will employment doctorine, which means that absent a union agreement or contract to the contrary, any employee can be fired for ANY reason or NO reason, so long as it doesn't violate any specific law. Generally, the only reasons you CAN'T be fired for are because of protected characteristics like race, gender, religion, disability, etc.