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UIA says I lied to get benefits

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nnikki12

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I had intermittent fmla due to personal illness. My company was aware of this and told me they would work with me about my absences. Normally employess get fired after 9, but I had 15 and they kept me on. The next month I had 1 absence not covered by fmla. 2 months later, another. This absence prompted them to have me sign a corrective action form, I was told it would be sent to corporate to request my termination. This was on 11/10. It normally takes up to 2 weeks before the person is fired. During this time I had another illness and missed a few more days of work. After 2 weeks, I spoke to my manager who told me he had heard nothing back from them. On Dec 6th, I was asked to sign an updated corrective action form, which had notated that my fmla was exhausted, so the days I took off in Dec were not covered at all. On Dec 14th I was let go from my job. I have never been laid off any job before this one. I spoke to hr and asked about applying for unemployment and my health insurance. They told me they would send my info over and I only needed to call to file for unemployment but my insurance form would be sent to me. I called, told them I got laid off, and received an unemployment check. The next day I filed for food stamps. My worker told me I would need to fax a letter from my employer of the speration. I faxed over my last corrective action form that stated my termination. However the form also shows all of my absences and my last 3 write ups for them and says I was told if I had another absence not covered I would be fired (but the actual write up for that absence says I would be subject to corrective action up to and including termination that would be determined on a case by case basis). I was also told by hr that my situation was different and they would not fire me but would work with me and my absences since it was for illness. I called in all days I missed work, and spoke to my manager everytime after I returned to work to let him know what was going on and provided them with return to work doctors notes. I certified for my 2nd unemployment check on 01/11 and on 01/12 received a letter from unemployment that was mailed on 01/11 stating information they receieved indicates that I may have intentionally mislead them and that I may not be eligible for benefits. They say they were informed I was terminated and want to know why, did I recieve write ups, what dates, was it bc of absence, why was I absent, did my company have an attendance policy, was it due to illness, did I give them doctors notes or seek medical attention and did I lie to them to recieve benefits (basically asking me a question about every statement that was faxed over for food stamps). I received my 2nd unemployment check on 01/13. In the letter it says I have to send them a letter back with a statement and evidence regarding this issue and tell them why I didnt tell them all this in the beginning and they will make a redetermintion to see if im eligible. My question is why would I get apporved for unemployment and recieve checks if I wasnt eligible? Why didnt my company send them this info regarding my termination when they said they would? What are my chances of being allowed to continue to receive my unemployment? I wasnt purposely missing work, and they waited until my intermittent FMLA ran out to lay me off. I asked one of my friends and she thinks its because I told them I was laid off and not fired. I looked it up in the dictionary and it has the same definition. Could this be why they sent the letter? What should I tell them? Sorry it took so long I didnt want to leave anything out.
 


Antigone*

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I had intermittent fmla due to personal illness. My company was aware of this and told me they would work with me about my absences. Normally employess get fired after 9, but I had 15 and they kept me on. The next month I had 1 absence not covered by fmla. 2 months later, another. This absence prompted them to have me sign a corrective action form, I was told it would be sent to corporate to request my termination. This was on 11/10. It normally takes up to 2 weeks before the person is fired. During this time I had another illness and missed a few more days of work. After 2 weeks, I spoke to my manager who told me he had heard nothing back from them. On Dec 6th, I was asked to sign an updated corrective action form, which had notated that my fmla was exhausted, so the days I took off in Dec were not covered at all. On Dec 14th I was let go from my job. I have never been laid off any job before this one. I spoke to hr and asked about applying for unemployment and my health insurance. They told me they would send my info over and I only needed to call to file for unemployment but my insurance form would be sent to me. I called, told them I got laid off, and received an unemployment check. The next day I filed for food stamps. My worker told me I would need to fax a letter from my employer of the speration. I faxed over my last corrective action form that stated my termination. However the form also shows all of my absences and my last 3 write ups for them and says I was told if I had another absence not covered I would be fired (but the actual write up for that absence says I would be subject to corrective action up to and including termination that would be determined on a case by case basis). I was also told by hr that my situation was different and they would not fire me but would work with me and my absences since it was for illness. I called in all days I missed work, and spoke to my manager everytime after I returned to work to let him know what was going on and provided them with return to work doctors notes. I certified for my 2nd unemployment check on 01/11 and on 01/12 received a letter from unemployment that was mailed on 01/11 stating information they receieved indicates that I may have intentionally mislead them and that I may not be eligible for benefits. They say they were informed I was terminated and want to know why, did I recieve write ups, what dates, was it bc of absence, why was I absent, did my company have an attendance policy, was it due to illness, did I give them doctors notes or seek medical attention and did I lie to them to recieve benefits (basically asking me a question about every statement that was faxed over for food stamps). I received my 2nd unemployment check on 01/13. In the letter it says I have to send them a letter back with a statement and evidence regarding this issue and tell them why I didnt tell them all this in the beginning and they will make a redetermintion to see if im eligible. My question is why would I get apporved for unemployment and recieve checks if I wasnt eligible? Why didnt my company send them this info regarding my termination when they said they would? What are my chances of being allowed to continue to receive my unemployment? I wasnt purposely missing work, and they waited until my intermittent FMLA ran out to lay me off. I asked one of my friends and she thinks its because I told them I was laid off and not fired. I looked it up in the dictionary and it has the same definition. Could this be why they sent the letter? What should I tell them? Sorry it took so long I didnt want to leave anything out.
It appears to me that you told UI that you were laid off, when in fact you were not laid off. You were terminated due to your excessive absense. You need to tell them the truth now.
 

commentator

Senior Member
No, in no dictionary in the world, and certainly not in unemployment benefits world is Laid off (due to lack of work on the part of the employer) and Fired (for cause) the same thing.

What you had better do is immediately send the unemployment office the information they are requesting. Because they can and will declare you ineligible and take back the two checks you have received if you do not cooperate with their procedure.

If you had a doctor's excuse for the last date you were absent, you probably will be approvable for benefits, regardless of the employer's process or what had happened in the past regarding your absences. But if you were without any more leave and you were absent without a doctor's excuse, and your employer fired you for too many absences in accordance with their company policies, you can very well be ineligible for unemployment.

Food stamps will not let you sign up unless you have signed up for unemployment benefits and worked out whether you have quit your job or were fired for cause, in other words, whether or not you are going to be able to receive unemployment benefits. Bu the two parties do not share information.

When you filed for unemployment, you received benefits until it came to the company's attention, based on the Food Stamp inquiry, I'd bet, that you were going around telling the agencies you were laid off. I suspect they probably at this time contacted the unemployment office to tell them you were not laid off, you were in fact fired for absenteeism.

Now, you must get back with Unemployment, get them a doctor's statement from the last time you were absent from work, and get a decision approving you for unemployment benefits before you will be able to get any more benefits. It is NOT the responsibility of your company to send the unemployment office anything to make sure you get to draw benefits. They only have to respond to inquiries by the unemployment office about why you are no longer working there. It sounds like they have done just that. Now you have to present evidence that they terminated you for an illness with a doctor's excuse, which in unemployment world means you could not help the absence and so were terminated without good cause.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I have said it many times before, and I will no doubt have to say it again many times. But here it is again:

Unless there is a very real chance that you will be recalled to work, you were not laid off, you were fired. Layoff is temporary. Fired is permanent. Laid off does NOT mean, my employment terminated but it was for reasons beyond my control and I did nothing wrong. Laid off means, my employer had no work for me, but when he does he will return me to work.
 

nnikki12

Junior Member
My last absence was for illness and I did have a doctors note. After looking at my termination sheet I see its wrong, it has my off day listed as an absence too, but my doctors note says I would be able to return to work on 12/11 (which was my off day) I returned to work on 12/12. Should I tell unemployment that they got the dates wrong and my last absence was 12/10, not 12/11? Should I tell them I didnt know the difference between fired and laid off but now know its not the same thing or should I not mention it and just only answer their questions?
 

Hot Topic

Senior Member
Looks like you may be trying to cook something up -"Oh, I didn't know"- to get the money.

It's not uncommon for employers to use the term "fired" when an employee was actually "laid off." The "f word" doesn't necessarily keep you from getting a job as long as you give an honest explanation for what happened. The employer is likely to say, "Oh. She really wasn't fired. She lost her job because the position was eliminated."
 

commentator

Senior Member
On most separation notices pre-printed by the different states, it usually give a place to specify if the person was laid off due to lack of work, and an opportunity to state whether the lay off is expected to be permanent. Another option is "terminated" usually with a place for reason. "Fired" isn't on the menu.

Usually if there is a recall date, the claimant is not subjected to job search activities. If the person is not recalled by a certain date, then the job search part of unemployment will kick in. A person laid off and anticipating recall is called "job attached." It would be counter productive to make them look for other job.

But in semantics, telling someone you were laid off (albeit permanently) because the company was downsizing, or had lost business, etc. is very different from "I was fired" or "I was terminated for absenteeism." You could say, "I was let go, " I suppose. But in most cases, I'd say that fired is a term that has the general connotation of being let go for fault. "You're fired!" is what Donald Trump says. Of course on the show, it's suppposedly for a performance issue.

If you file an unemployment claim and say, "I was fired" there's going to be an assumption on the part of the agency that you were fired for cause on your part, not because the company needed to reduce workers. A so-designated "clean claim" is when a person is laid off (again a term) or let go for lack of work. Sometimes the employee is given a separation notice. Sometimes a mass separation notice is issued. For WARN purposes, an anticipated permanent mass lay off is subject to the same requirements as a plant closure.

But frankly, it won't make much difference whether you plead, "I didn't know the difference" or whatever. You need to get the information to them that you were out of work with a doctor's excuse. That's what will determine whether you will be approved for further benefits. The employer may or may not have made a mistake about your last day. Not important.

The unemployment office does not punish people for lack of proficiency in filing claims. They are very used to both claimants and employers who do not say the right exact things. If you are determined ineligble, you'll just owe the money back, will not receive any further benefits. If you are determined eligible, you'll be approved, and backpaid for each week you've certified for since you filed.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Just as an FYI to all concerned, there are certain terms that mean certain things to different industries. To HR, "fired" does not have an automatic connotation of "for cause". This is the first I knew that the unemployment world felt differently, though I am not questioning Commentator on that point. (In my state, you file over the phone or in person; they say, why did you leave, and you tell them. There are no boxes to check off. You are always, when filing an initial claim, talking to a live person.) There have been many, many threads where posters have objected to the word, terminated, but HR realizes that there are such things as voluntary and involuntary terminations; that a voluntary termination means you quit and that an involuntary term means that you left for any other reason than quitting.

The point I am trying to make is this. I realize that "fired" is a hot button word for many people and if it makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to use it. And by all means, follow Commentator's advice on your unemployment claim. But you don't need to be afraid of using either "let go" or "terminated" when you apply for other jobs - HR will know that it does not automatically mean, fired for cause.
 

commentator

Senior Member
My very favorite what what I saw on an application once under "reason for leaving last job." It said, "Recaptured, returned to prison." :eek:
 

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