Unemployment Appeal to the Commonwealth Courts in PA

[wgoin1988]

I've lost my unemployment decision, and hearing appeal, and board of review appeal and in the preparation process of appealing to the commonwealth courts. I was a bartender for a country club and received a raise a month before termination. I was unsatisfied with the raise and was told that if I follow a few guidelines including "being more visible at the bar" I would receive an additional raise at the end of the summer. During a banquet event I was seen at the main bar, which is also the support bar for all banquet events, briefly talking to the bartender on duty. At the time I was returning items borrowed earlier back to the main bar. When I was seen I was told to return upstairs and did so. The next day I was told I was terminated because I failed to follow the directive given to remain visible at my workstation. When in the hearing the employer agreed that it is normal practice for the bartender to travel back and forth to the main bar, and the optimal time to do so is during slow periods in the event. At the hearing the employer stated that I said at the time of termination that “I was bored” which is completely false. I refuted this statement at the hearing but for some reason that was found to be a factual statement. At the hearing also there was a witness brought in by the employer, which was the Dining Room manager who stated that he talked to me several times about staying at my workstation and that I was told that if I failed to remain at my workstation that I would be fired. Mind you this is all around the time when I received a raise and was in line to receive another in a couple months. At the hearing the employer also stated that they do not give raises to employees who are under any violation of policy. I refuted the statement the witness made but also was found to be a factual statement. I have the transcript from the hearing. The witness a few months after the hearing was discharged due to misrepresentation of his resume. Is there any way I can use that to my advantage when appealing to the commonwealth courts? I have already begun line by line disagreements with the statements of facts that were sent along with the decision. Can I put any additional statements that can nullify what the witness stated now that he was discharged for misrepresentation, which is clearly what he did at the hearing?

 

[swalsh411]

You argue that given the strength of the evidence, even if everything said was true, there was still no misconduct. I'm fairly certain this final step in the appeal process will not reconsider the credibility of evidence. They will accept the findings of the appeal board in terms of who is a credible witness.

 

[commentator]

OP, I hope you have a lot of money to spend on this, and frankly, I don't think you are going to have a chance and that that's what an attorney is going to tell you if they are truly knowledgeable about unemployment law. You can take it to court, but your only argument, if you think about it, is that they're all liars. It's all based on whether they did or did not have adequate reasons to terminate you for misconduct. You were told to stay behind your bar. You were seen at another place. You were testified against by the person who was at the other bar. It was determined that they were the more believable of the two parties, that they had sufficient evidence to show you had committed misconduct after warnings.

Do they have any written proofs, any evidence from any testimony that you had been warned? That you knew you were being judged and watched and told to stay behind your bar? Yes, they do. Although the the fired manager has been proved to be a liar on his resume, if he has, and you can get proof of that, and get it into the court case, that isn't going to matter. A known liar can tell the truth under some circumstances, think about jailhouse snitches.

That they accepted their statements as more valid and true than your refutations of their statements should tell you something. No one is going to sit in court and listen to you do a line by line refutation of the things that were said in the hearing. This is going to be considered "wasting the court's time." I will be surprised if you get it to court. If you are determined, I strongly suggest that you invest in an attorney to assist you. Once something has gone through three decisions in the unemployment system, (you have been denied in the initial decision, the appeals hearing and the board of review decision) there's a VERY slender chance that it will come out any different in civil court. The law and the majority of the evidence does not appear to be on your side.

You would be much better served spending your time looking for another job. Unemployment insurance benefits, even if you draw them for the maximum amount of time, are not very much money, and are not worth your spending weeks and weeks and weeks trying to beat this very close to dead horse.

 

[swalsh411]

I had a hunch about something so I looked it up and I was right. The final step in the appeals process for PA Unemployment will not weigh the evidence brought forward during the previous steps and will not consider any new evidence. It's not a fresh start. They only look at matters of law (i.e. Was the law properly applied?) and not matters of fact (i.e. Did you or did you not leave the bar?).

Whatever the decision was regarding the facts or credibility of witnesses in the prior step will be taken at face value. So if the prior appeal said you were lying and the other guy was telling the truth, then that's what they will take as truth. Your only hope is to argue that the law was not properly applied in your case.

 

[commentator]

In the absence of significant new evidence that changes the whole situation (such as discovery of video showing the actual events) which happens about once in a million years, that is what the Board of Review looks at. And they found what it sounds like to me, even from the OP's retelling of events, that yes, the law was appropriately followed and applied in this case. There's nothing new to present in court that shows otherwise. This matter is over, the OP just hasn't stopped arguing yet. He's not going to take our word for it, either.

 

[wgoin1988]

I am past the board of review at this point, I am appealing to the commonwealth court which i was told will look at my rebuttals for what was claimed to be found as fact by a community legal assistance organization. But there was no evidence shown on both sides, just word of mouth. There were no written write-ups and warnings. They claimed all verbal warnings which were again all around the time i was receiving a raise. I stated all of this at the hearing. Also the witness was not on site the day of the event. Which was stated in the hearing. I was at the other bar, yes, but in the hearing also the employer stated that i was allowed to be at that bar during certain circumstances. Which i was there for one of those circumstances, i was just seen also holding a conversation. I was never approached that or any other day as to why i was there. I just came in the next day and the decision was made that i was fired. That is where they claimed that i stated i was bored.

 

[Zigner]

But there was no evidence shown on both sides, just word of mouth.

Testimony is evidence.

 

[commentator]

The most cursory glance at the websites brings up several legal organizations which offer to help with PA unemployment appeals up to and including those to the court system. And the most valid thing they say is that you have very little chance to prevail in circuit court without an attorney.

In court, you will not be coming up against your employer to rehash the testimony of the hearing, you will be suing the Department, and their agency's legal representatives will be defending the decisions of the last three entites. So this will not be just another hearing against your employer, another he sez, you sez. Did anyone explain this to you?

This OP does not seem to get it that you can't keep re-frying the same chicken. Your hearing officer made a decision based on what they saw and heard. The initial decision was made by an ajudicator based on the testimony of both parties. The Board of review said the law was followed in the making of this decision. That's the third time they've won. You can almost assume they've got something that is persuasive to someone familiar with unemployment law.

You did not like the way this decision went. You think you can keep arguing it and arguing it and arguing it over and submitting more and more proofs to back up your arguments and eventually they're going to see it your way. This will not happen. They may have told you they'd look at your rebuttals, but I honestly doubt it if you do not have some significant new evidence there was no way you could have presented at the time of your original hearing.

You were given notice before your hearing. At that time, you had the option of presenting every single piece of valid evidence you think you now have to present (except that the manager was terminated for falsifying his resume, which you can never prove anyhow and is not relevent to your case in the least.)

You were fired because they decided they wanted to fire you. They have shown enough by testimony to show that you met the definition of work related misconduct, in the opinon of three unemployment insurance reviews. You want to go forward with arguing the meaning of meaning, the definition of proof, who says I said, they said I said, You won't take our word for it. Good luck with this. I told you, you should spend your time looking for another job.