Unemployment questions

[NectarineNadine]

I was fired from a liquor store for selling alcohol to a minor during a sting. I was working alone at the time. That was a Friday. After working a final shift on Saturday, I was fired. I have never received any notice of a fine or a ticket and I haven't been arrested. I also haven't received any communique that my liquor license has been suspended or revoked. When I check online dockets in my state (Oklahoma) under my name, nothing comes up so it's evident no charges have ever been filed in this matter. Also, the liquor store where I worked hasn't been fined either. I recently applied for unemployment but was denied due to misconduct. Can you give me an idea what my chances are for an appeal? Should I even bother? I'd hate to appeal and bring up something which "fell through the cracks" and end up being charged or fined. Thank you in advance.

 

[Proserpina]

I was fired from a liquor store for selling alcohol to a minor during a sting. I was working alone at the time. That was a Friday. After working a final shift on Saturday, I was fired. I have never received any notice of a fine or a ticket and I haven't been arrested. I also haven't received any communique that my liquor license has been suspended or revoked. When I check online dockets in my state (Oklahoma) under my name, nothing comes up so it's evident no charges have ever been filed in this matter. Also, the liquor store where I worked hasn't been fined either. I recently applied for unemployment but was denied due to misconduct. Can you give me an idea what my chances are for an appeal? Should I even bother? I'd hate to appeal and bring up something which "fell through the cracks" and end up being charged or fined. Thank you in advance.

I don't think we can predict, but I'd be on the side of "Nope, not a chance".

With that said, it doesn't hurt to appeal. You'll definitely get nothing if you don't.

 

[latigo]

I was fired from a liquor store for selling alcohol to a minor during a sting. I was working alone at the time. That was a Friday. After working a final shift on Saturday, I was fired. I have never received any notice of a fine or a ticket and I haven't been arrested. I also haven't received any communique that my liquor license has been suspended or revoked. When I check online dockets in my state (Oklahoma) under my name, nothing comes up so it's evident no charges have ever been filed in this matter. Also, the liquor store where I worked hasn't been fined either. I recently applied for unemployment but was denied due to misconduct. Can you give me an idea what my chances are for an appeal? Should I even bother? I'd hate to appeal and bring up something which "fell through the cracks" and end up being charged or fined. Thank you in advance.

If you cannot produce evidence that the purchaser was not a minor, it seems that the chances of over turning the decision would rest on what you might have done in attempting to verify that you were not selling liquor to a minor.

However, the fact that you were the target of a "sting" is suggestive (and only suggestive) of something prior that you may be disinclined to mention.

Anyway, it seems best that you talk to an attorney in the labor law field. I'm sure that if this was in fact a sting operation the selected actor wasn't in diapers sucking on a lollipop. In other words, the person was meant to appear of age; "possibly" raising the issue of entrapment.

 

[NectarineNadine]

If you cannot produce evidence that the purchaser was not a minor, it seems that the chances of over turning the decision would rest on what you might have done in attempting to verify that you were not selling liquor to a minor.

However, the fact that you were the target of a "sting" is suggestive (and only suggestive) of something prior that you may be disinclined to mention.

Anyway, it seems best that you talk to an attorney in the labor law field. I'm sure that if this was in fact a sting operation the selected actor wasn't in diapers sucking on a lollipop. In other words, the person was meant to appear of age; "possibly" raising the issue of entrapment.

The liquor stores in my town are victims of sting operations on a frequent basis. This was my first one, though. Others in the store have told stories of their own sting operations. The kid looked good to me. It was only after the sale was complete that an undercover officer came up an showed his badge and explained the whole operation. He took my name an liquor license number, but did not issue me a ticket or citation or take me away. He just left.

 

[Ladyback1]

The liquor stores in my town are victims of sting operations on a frequent basis. This was my first one, though. Others in the store have told stories of their own sting operations. The kid looked good to me. It was only after the sale was complete that an undercover officer came up an showed his badge and explained the whole operation. He took my name an liquor license number, but did not issue me a ticket or citation or take me away. He just left.

2 Things: If you carded everyone (like you were taught in the class I know you had to take) this wouldn't have been an issue. And DUH! If it was a sting, of course they waited until after the sale was complete--that's what a sting is!

 

[NectarineNadine]

2 Things: If you carded everyone (like you were taught in the class I know you had to take) this wouldn't have been an issue. And DUH! If it was a sting, of course they waited until after the sale was complete--that's what a sting is!

There was no class offered. I was just hired an trained by other ppl who worked there. To my knowledge, the other employees had never been to a class either. What class??

 

[LdiJ]

There was no class offered. I was just hired an trained by other ppl who worked there. To my knowledge, the other employees had never been to a class either. What class??

Some states require you to take a class in order to obtain a liquor license.

 

[NectarineNadine]

Some states require you to take a class in order to obtain a liquor license.

I guess it's not an Oklahoma requirement. The owner just had me fill out a form and a month later, I was mailed my liquor license. I have been doing some reading, tho, and I wonder how accurate it is. This section in particular caught my attention:

The U.S. Attorney General’s guidelines for the FBI are based on U.S. Supreme Court decisions and exist in order to protect the rights of the innocent while convicting the guilty. Those guidelines insist, for example, that sting operations can only be conducted against the “unwary guilty,” not the “unwary innocent.”

To prevent illegal entrapment retail establishments should not be randomly selected. That would not prevent entrapping a clerk who sells “innocently due to a momentary lapse in judgment” as a result of being rushed, from becoming distracted, or other reasonable cause.

“The only way to ensure that only the "unwary guilty" are caught in the trap is to create a history of the cashier in question with the use of surveillance or repeated compliance checks which are not also sting operations.” Since many, if not most of those caught in these sting operations have passed previous compliance checks, which clearly proves that they have no criminal predisposition to make underage sales, they are the "unwary innocent" if induced by law enforcement to sell to an underage person.​

What does this mean for my chances for filing fan appeal for unemployment, if anything? Am I seeing hope where none exists?

 

[Proserpina]

I guess it's not an Oklahoma requirement. The owner just had me fill out a form and a month later, I was mailed my liquor license. I have been doing some reading, tho, and I wonder how accurate it is. This section in particular caught my attention:

The U.S. Attorney General’s guidelines for the FBI are based on U.S. Supreme Court decisions and exist in order to protect the rights of the innocent while convicting the guilty. Those guidelines insist, for example, that sting operations can only be conducted against the “unwary guilty,” not the “unwary innocent.”

To prevent illegal entrapment retail establishments should not be randomly selected. That would not prevent entrapping a clerk who sells “innocently due to a momentary lapse in judgment” as a result of being rushed, from becoming distracted, or other reasonable cause.

“The only way to ensure that only the "unwary guilty" are caught in the trap is to create a history of the cashier in question with the use of surveillance or repeated compliance checks which are not also sting operations.” Since many, if not most of those caught in these sting operations have passed previous compliance checks, which clearly proves that they have no criminal predisposition to make underage sales, they are the "unwary innocent" if induced by law enforcement to sell to an underage person.​

What does this mean for my chances for filing fan appeal for unemployment, if anything? Am I seeing hope where none exists?

I think you may have been led down the path a little bit (though hopefully not intentionally) with the entrapment angle.

Your employer doesn't have the same burden of proof as is needed in a criminal trial; all they need to do (I'm oversimplifying, but you get the gist) is show that you did something that qualifies as "misconduct".

One or two states have actually more or less held the employer to the much higher burden of proof, but it doesn't appear to be common.

So, all you can do is appeal. It won't hurt, and it won't cost you anything - the worst that can happen is that you are denied.

 

[NectarineNadine]

I think you may have been led down the path a little bit (though hopefully not intentionally) with the entrapment angle.

Your employer doesn't have the same burden of proof as is needed in a criminal trial; all they need to do (I'm oversimplifying, but you get the gist) is show that you did something that qualifies as "misconduct".

One or two states have actually more or less held the employer to the much higher burden of proof, but it doesn't appear to be common.

So, all you can do is appeal. It won't hurt, and it won't cost you anything - the worst that can happen is that you are denied.

Ok. Thank u.

 

[Eekamouse]

Out of curiosity, why WEREN'T you carding everyone who bought liquor from you? Seriously. If it were me behind that counter, selling liquor to people, I'd be carding everyone who looked under 50 years old. It doesn't take a class to know that you're selling a substance that can kill people and ruin their lives. Why even take the chance of selling it to an underaged person?

 

[LdiJ]

Out of curiosity, why WEREN'T you carding everyone who bought liquor from you? Seriously. If it were me behind that counter, selling liquor to people, I'd be carding everyone who looked under 50 years old. It doesn't take a class to know that you're selling a substance that can kill people and ruin their lives. Why even take the chance of selling it to an underaged person?

In my state its a bit humorous, the laws keep changing year by year. For one year everybody has to be carded, for another certain people have to be carded but others do not. Its a huge mess here

I actually get a kick out of being carded.

 

[NectarineNadine]

Ordinarily, I did. This time, however, it was the busy peak on a Friday night and I was working alone. I realize it's my bad, but I was slammed an tryin to get ppl out the door as fast as possible.