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Unemployment for a voluntary quit

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cafb5

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

I was working at a local convenience store. The owner had sent her 19 year old daughter into the store to pick up beer for the family. A few days later the owner and I got into a heated discussion about the incident. She basically wanted me to keep quiet about it. She was upset about the fact that I had told the manager about it, and wanted me to not tell anybody else. I ended up storming out, and quit.

I filed for unemployment, and got denied because they claim that it (was not a reason of such gravity that the claimant had no reasonable alternative but to leave work.)

Should I keep persuing this? Or am I dead in the water?
 


cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
My personal opinion is that you're dead in the water. (If Commentator disagrees then I will defer to her.) However, while if you pursue this you are unlikely to prevail, if you don't pursue it you will definitely not prevail.

Food for thought.
 

commentator

Senior Member
I agree.

"Storming off and leaving the job" is hardly ever considered the way to go to be approved for unemployment benefits. When presenting your appeal in the hearing, I would avoid any such picture. Show that you felt you could do nothing except resign. Stay far away from the "stormed off " scenario. They will always ask if the claimant has exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting before they leave the job by their own decision. Behavior that is reasonable, professional and unemotional is at a premium. Having your pride may be fun, getting in a huff and walking off the job may give you a warm glow for a few minutes, but it does not win appeals.

It was not strictly necessary to the performance of your duties that you tell anyone but the manager about the owner's girl coming in and picking up beer, was it? I don't understand why you and the owner had such a fuss about this issue. Were you threatening to call the police on them? I mean, you might have concerns about your liability for an underage person getting the beer, though you technically did not sell it to them. This was a legitimate issue to discuss with the manager. And you might have concerns about the loss of inventory, and have that to discuss with the manager (two cases of beer are gone here, no money in the register for them.)

But why would you find it necessary to discuss that with anyone else? Who? Before my hearing, I'd do some research with law enforcement in my area about exactly how much liability you might possibly have had, what would be the correct action to take about the situation before my hearing, so I'd be able to explain this to the appeals officer. You don't necessarily have to tell them exactly what happened, but you can certainly find out the answer to a general question about selling beer to a minor vs. having knowledge that a store owner allowed a minor to take beer out of their inventory.

I also agree with cbg in that you have absolutely nothing to lose by filing an appeal of this initial decision in a timely manner and continuing to certify for weeks that pass. I would be looking like mad for another job, with the pretty strong assumption that I might NOT be approved in appeal, and unemployment benefits was something I could not count on, but as long as you are not working, have the time and all, why not pursue this?

The owner may not want to put the spotlight on themselves after this very hinky behavior to the point that they do not even show up for the hearing.

If this is the case, you will still need to attend the hearing yourself, even if you are the only one there, you will still be required to give your testimony. Whether the other party shows up or not, you will need to strongly emphasize your concerns that you were being asked to do something illegal, that you might be legally liable for the minor taking the beer from the store if you did not notify someone, that you felt the best, most honest performance of your duties required you to inform the manager, and that you had certainly never been told what to do or who to tell, or that there was any policy to be used in this circumstance.

You would aim your dialogue in the appeal as that you tried to be reasonable and mature in your talk with the store owner, that you told them that you were doing your best, that you did not want to lose your job, but that it became obvious that if you continued to work there, you were going to be expected to agree to cooperate with these sorts of little forays by the owner's family members, legal or not, and that because of this, you decided that you would rather find another job than stay around and be complicit with these actions.
 
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The beer issue is one of public policy ... you can see an attny for more details -- much of a wrongful discharge is contained within specific facts of each incident...

unemployment??? Not likely at this point

See an attny first.

Your battle was not well picked...
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
OP: Were you told you personally needed to sell beer to minors as part of your job? Or just shut up about it happening?
 

csi7

Senior Member
Have you checked with Oregon's Liquor Control Commission to find out exactly how the rule applies to clerks in convenience stores?
 
Have you checked with Oregon's Liquor Control Commission to find out exactly how the rule applies to clerks in convenience stores?

An interesting query. In many states it does not matter if the employee is correct or incorrect in his/her assessment of a public policy issue; only that the employee had a good faith belief that a public policy was at issue.

Also, looking at the OPs post most favorable to the OP, I would be skeptical of the under aged person buying liquor/beer for her father. It very well could be that she consumed the liquor & the father is covering up for her daughter's transgression.

Hence my recommendation to seek an attny on this subject matter.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
The beer issue is one of public policy ... you can see an attny for more details -- much of a wrongful discharge is contained within specific facts of each incident...

unemployment??? Not likely at this point

See an attny first.

Your battle was not well picked...

You do realize the OP quit, right? There was no unlawful termination by the employer because there was no termination by the employer.

If the OP was the person that sold to the minor, OP has as much to be concerned about as anybody as the OP broke the law. That was a choice the OP made (if applicable) and is not grounds to any action by the OP. If anything, it is a justification for not paying UI to the OP.

Now, if the OP was fired for refusing to sell to the minor, then OP would have a valid argument for a wrongful termination. That isn't what happened though.
 

pattytx

Senior Member
jal is right on here. Besides, I'm not at all clear that there was a sale at all.

The owner had sent her 19 year old daughter into the store to pick up beer for the family.
 

commentator

Senior Member
You certainly do not need to see an attorney related to unemployment benefits in this situation. By voluntarily quitting, you set up the parameters of the issue as "did this person have a good job related reason to quit the job?"
It is an unemployment insurance related issue only. You can't have any kind of termination issues when you did not get terminated. And there seems to me to be a small chance you might be able to convince them of that in an appeal, so I'd file an appeal, certainly.
 

cafb5

Junior Member
Thank you for all your responses. I am going through with the appeal, and your comments and suggestions have been helpful in how to frame my appeal in order to (hopefully) win.

If the employer does not show for the hearing, do I automatically win? Or is it still just a matter of how persuasive I am.

And, yes, I am out there looking for work, however in this economy, it's pretty tough out there. I have filled out a lot of applications, and had only one interview so far. Unfortunately I did not get it, so I am still looking.

Thanks again for all your comments, and if you have anymore advice, please let me know.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Even if the employer does not show up for the hearing, it will still be held formally, you will tell your version of the events, and you could actually be denied if you do not prove to their satisfaction that you had a good job related reason to quit and that you exhausted all reasonable alternatives before quitting. It's not uncommon at all to have somene denied when they're the only dog in the dogshow, so to speak.

So good luck in your appeal, keep pursuing it through this hearing anyway, hope you find another job soon.
 

cafb5

Junior Member
Thank you for your advice. You have given me a lot to think about in how I present my apeal. I realize it is still an uphill battle, but I do have to try.

I did not want to quit, (without a job lined up), but this wasn't the only thing that I have seen my employer do that was, at the least, morally and legally questionable. This was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

Hopefully, I will get another job soon and I won't have to worry about it anymore.
 

commentator

Senior Member
When you present your case to appeals, do not spend too much time detailing the other questionable things the employer did or was doing. Don't weaken your case with too many unrelated details. Stay with the one issue that led to your quitting, the family members/underage drinker issue. Be sure you tell them what all you did to try to resolve the situation (or each one of these questionable situations if you bring them up)

Don't just throw in something like, "..and I know he's cheating on his sales taxes!" That doesn't help your case, it just dilutes your emphasis.

Be sure you keep your weekly certifications up to date while waiting for the appeal. Even if you get another job, even though you will stop filing for weeks of unemloyment at that time, still do not fail to show up for the appeal on this claim, even if you have to be off a little bit for it.

You are, if approved, entitled to the money for these weeks here between jobs, and though you may not need it desperately as much any more once you have gone back to work somewhere else, it is still legally yours if you win the appeal, so don't just walk away and leave it lying there.
 

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