website slave

[frankentron]

What is the name of your state? New York

A few months ago I was desperate for a job. I have a recent background in Web Design and a previous career in electronics. a few months ago the only job I could find was a job in electronics. so I applied. during the interview they mentioned that they had already selected a candidate for the job but would hire me instead if I agreed to "help them" rebuild their website. like I mentioned, I was desperate for work so I agreed. since then I am working for them almost full time as a Web Designer, there was no "helping" I've had to do the entire thing myself. anyway, their site is as complete as it's gonna get and now they are telling me I have to build a multimedia presentation for marketing and also expand the website so customers can order through it and track their orders. they have made it known indirectly that I will be fired if I discontinue the IT work.
I'm getting paid $28,000 for work that should be earning me at least $68,000. I'm tired of it and I just want to do the electronics work but I'm afraid of being fired when I tell them.
can they fire me for this?

 

[cbg]

Yup, they sure can.

 

[Beth3]

As long as you are being paid at least minimum wage, your employer isn't doing any illegal. No laws compel an employer to pay a wage appropropriate to the job. The laws of supply and demand are what dictate what an employer needs to pay to hire and retain skilled help. Due to your circumstances, they were able to get you on the cheap and you agreed to it.

What you need to do is to start looking for a position commensurate with your experience and an appropriate salary.

 

[mrtoledo]

So if you are a qualified web developer why don't you go find a better paying job?

 

[Consentlaw]

Ha Ha Ha!!!! Yes my friend they can fire you

Unless as CBG and all these other retards failed to ask... Did you have a FOR-CAUSE contract, usually most web designers do, since the work is contractual, meaning for the life and term of the contract, unless you were hired full time to maintain it too, its a For cause contract and they actually can't fire you with out paying you, so long as you wish to fulfill the contract. What were the terms of the agreement to build the site? If they breached your agreement, or clauses of their own agreement, you can sue them for breach of contract. CBG your At-will BS doesn't apply here. Websites are usually designed by professionals and are creative works therefore they require contracts to release said creative works, study IP law a bit. They cant fire you if you ask for more money, they can deny it! You have a contract to fulfill the agreement at what ever cost you agreed to, if they breach it you can sue them if you breach it they can sue you, unless you can find some other exception.

 

[Consentlaw]

although I disagree with your estimate

of 68,000 dollars, that seems pretty high, you also have to provide a myriad of proof that you even deserve that kind of money for your creative works. If the terms of your employment were that you release your rights to creative works you design then great you have no case, but if you didnt sign anything, then delete your site. Its your work, you own it. You did put your authoring information on the webpage right?

 

[HomeGuru]

Unless as CBG and all these other retards failed to ask... Did you have a FOR-CAUSE contract, usually most web designers do, since the work is contractual, meaning for the life and term of the contract, unless you were hired full time to maintain it too, its a For cause contract and they actually can't fire you with out paying you, so long as you wish to fulfill the contract. What were the terms of the agreement to build the site? If they breached your agreement, or clauses of their own agreement, you can sue them for breach of contract. CBG your At-will BS doesn't apply here. Websites are usually designed by professionals and are creative works therefore they require contracts to release said creative works, study IP law a bit. They cant fire you if you ask for more money, they can deny it! You have a contract to fulfill the agreement at what ever cost you agreed to, if they breach it you can sue them if you breach it they can sue you, unless you can find some other exception.

**A: more crap from consentflaw. An employer can indeed fire this employee for cause or for no cause. Do you know want a "work for hire" concept is? Do you know what "at will" means? This thread has nothing to do with IP law. The employer owns the website period.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

**A: more crap from consentflaw. An employer can indeed fire this employee for cause or for no cause. Do you know want a "work for hire" concept is? Do you know what "at will" means? This thread has nothing to do with IP law. The employer owns the website period.

Ahh he jsut wanted to show off!
"I am know a great deal about Labor law. Probably as much as you."
so far not any better than med-mal posts

 

[Consentlaw]

Are you an attorney HomoGURU

If so what is your Bar Number, that is of course if you are an attorney.. I would love to have it If not what qualifications do you have to give legal advice.

 

[dequeendistress]

Sir, your lines are getting really old.

What qualifications do you have to judge anyone else anyway.

If you had not been such an myopic hypocrite, maybe you could have been a moderator...and had the chance to edit out all of which that you so vehemently disagree.

Now your chance of that is....ummm... I'm calculating...

Null.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Randy, Please go take you meds and take a nap. Be a good boy now.

 

[frankentron]

of 68,000 dollars, that seems pretty high, you also have to provide a myriad of proof that you even deserve that kind of money for your creative works. If the terms of your employment were that you release your rights to creative works you design then great you have no case, but if you didnt sign anything, then delete your site. Its your work, you own it. You did put your authoring information on the webpage right?

That amount is the low average for my county for a Web Designer with 5 or more years experience. I cross referenced this through the state DOL site and salaries.monster.com. considering I have closer to 8 years experience I imagine I should easily qualify for the high average salary of $75.5.
every piece of the site is tagged with my name as creator and absolutely nothing is in writing. all agreements between myself and my employer have been strictly verbal.

in response to this brainstorm: "So if you are a qualified web developer why don't you go find a better paying job?"....

remember when the dotcom bubble broke? well it hasn't picked up since. and with more corporations than ever offshoring their IT jobs I really doubt it will ever pick up again. I still know former coworkers who hold multiple masters in computer science that haven't worked in 3 or 4 years now. it's a sinking boat my friend and what I really need to do is find an entirely different career. I tried doing freelance for awhile until everybody and their brother got visions of gumdrops and I saw my business dry up faster than a flower in the Sahara. Freelance is no way to make a living anyhow, you spend so much unpaid time dealing with common idiocy it becomes nearly impossible to make a buck.

now a GOOD web designer knows how to protect his work from plaigerism and I have done this - with a twist. hiding the "magic" of a website is simple if you know how to work with dynamic templates. this means the pages of the site are generated on the fly by programs running on the webserver. this makes it quite hard to peak behind the curtain. next I made those programs in a rather unorthodox and complicated manner using very obscure languages only a true pro would understand. so anybody hired to replace me will either have to rebuild the entire site from scratch or spend MANY months reverse engineering it. both of these options are really quite expensive compared with just hiring me as a consultant after I leave. ;-)
I'll get what I deserve one way or another...
thanks for all the advice!

 

[okamsrazor]

That amount is the low average for my county for a Web Designer with 5 or more years experience. I cross referenced this through the state DOL site and salaries.monster.com. considering I have closer to 8 years experience I imagine I should easily qualify for the high average salary of $75.5.

I made those programs in a rather unorthodox and complicated manner using very obscure languages only a true pro would understand. so anybody hired to replace me will either have to rebuild the entire site from scratch or spend MANY months reverse engineering it. both of these options are really quite expensive compared with just hiring me as a consultant after I leave. ;-)
I'll get what I deserve one way or another...
thanks for all the advice!

First off, what web designer makes $75k? Do you think this is 1994? Web designers are a dime a dozen and so are do-it-yourself HTML programs. Web design is usually shucked to unlucky interns and entry level jobs; not "pros". A web designer is the IT equivalent of a cashier job. No real skill needed and low pay.

Second, if those sites are to be believed, I should be making nearly $300k a year, a pretty high salary here in suburban Chicago land. Just because a website says you should make more doesn't somehow entitle your employer to pay you that amount. You can always try to persuade your employer with those sites come salary review time, but I would not expect a miracle.

Web Design is extremely easy, and there are no "unorthodox" ways to go about it. It is all written into HTML no matter what method you chose to create the original source code; so any "hidden" code you may think you have placed is still there for everyone to see. I am sure you added in nice little flash images and whatever else you stole from www.bellsandwhistles.com but the point remains that is not "hidden".

 

[testedmonkey]

I love my web geek!

People *claiming* to be web designers are a dime a dozen. Web sites done by "unlucky interns and entry level jobs" are generally pieces of crap churned out using FrontPage templates. There are plenty of people out there with real skill who make good money doing web design. And yeah, I could name a few. I'm marrying one. And if Frankentron is any good, he probably did engineer a few lovely tricks into that site that'll set his future ex-employer on their ass. Never underestimate the power of a true geek scorned!

 

[frankentron]

get a grip

First off, what web designer makes $75k? Do you think this is 1994? Web designers are a dime a dozen and so are do-it-yourself HTML programs. Web design is usually shucked to unlucky interns and entry level jobs; not "pros". A web designer is the IT equivalent of a cashier job. No real skill needed and low pay.

Second, if those sites are to be believed, I should be making nearly $300k a year, a pretty high salary here in suburban Chicago land. Just because a website says you should make more doesn't somehow entitle your employer to pay you that amount. You can always try to persuade your employer with those sites come salary review time, but I would not expect a miracle.

Web Design is extremely easy, and there are no "unorthodox" ways to go about it. It is all written into HTML no matter what method you chose to create the original source code; so any "hidden" code you may think you have placed is still there for everyone to see. I am sure you added in nice little flash images and whatever else you stole from www.bellsandwhistles.com but the point remains that is not "hidden".

*1st off* are you trying to make me feel bad or something? did someone piss in your Wheaties? were you kicked by your mom as a child? your posting is completely unrelated to my original topic. do you think I give a damn about your estimate of web designers and their salaries? I'll believe the websites before I believe you. no real skill huh? remove your head from your ass my friend, I can go into a firm and assess their website needs, analyze their data and workflow and draft a solution that can dramatically increase productivity and save the company tens of thousands on customer support. I do it all, from database design, to middleware, app servers, user interface and setup and administer the web server. I can program in ANY modern computer language and a few that are just plain dead. but I suppose for you this just means I can run a bigger cash register.

*2nd* can you prove that the information I got from the Dept. of Labor is wrong? please do...
I already know my employer isn't going to pay me any more money, that's why I don't want to do this type of work for him.

*3rd* web design EASY??? even further proof you have a permanent view of the inside of your rectum. if it's so easy smart guy then prove it. go design a site with the following. a clean professional look, database generated pages with thumbnails and clickable larger images for 200 different products where each product may have 15 different optional accesories and 6 different finishes. all engineering documents for each product must be downloadable and the download links appear not just on the products pages but are in each product index next to the link to the product's page plus there must be a searchable library of all documentation. now I also want to see built into each page an interface that allows the customer to choose any number of products and configure them with any options + finishes they want and have the site automatically generate a quote which will also go into the "sales followup" database. the customer should also be able to track their orders no matter how they were shipped. and the entire site's content must be editable by non-technical sales personnel through a WYSIWYG management interface.
and I'd like it all by the end of the month...
and to make it more realistic a challenge your art direction must be dictated to you by a 60 y/o sales manager from Texas who thinks he knows what's hip in web design. and the information and pictures of the products are in pdf. word. quark, tiff. excel and some crappy proprietary manufacturing DB. lets not forget you have to get all this info from a handful of employees who couldn't be bothered with anything outside their minimal job functions.
oh yeah okamsRectum - I don't steal stuff