What do I do with this problem worker?

[RCPWISC]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WISCONSIN

I've come into a rather big problem with our bookkeeper. We're a non-profit religious organization, and I have oversight of five other employees. I've only been with the organization about four months now, but I'm beginning to see that the bookkeeper is causing some real issues.

Her position is titled "Financial Secretary", implying that she has no real leadership role. The person I replaced, however, had pretty much kept his hands off when she began helping herself to other people's work and taking it to herself. She had worked in a similar office before ours where she did have a leadership role overseeing some other employees.

She has a hostile attitude, refusing to let our computer personnel work on her machine. Last week, she went to our preschool administrator and accused her of underpaying her summer help teachers from three years ago! NO basis for that. I just found out that while I was gone on vacation, she looked through some folders in my office. No one else in the office enjoys working with her - I think some are even intimidated by her. There's some other stuff as well, but it's been a very uncomfortable situation.

I've been biding my time, documenting these little mishaps. However, I'm going to have to do something about her before the rest of my GOOD staff quits! I've not really addressed any of this with her as of yet, because I'm trying to figure out how best to proceed. I really think we're beyond the point of trying to sit her down to reconcile differences and do an attitude adjustment on her. She has isolated herself so much from the other staff that I don't really think this would work.

Last week, I found out that she created a huge mess at the last place she was at, and I received confirmation that her bookkeeping skills leave a lot to be desired.

I had intended to reduce her position from full-time to part-time for awhile now. I'm thinking that now is the time to make that move, and to make the part-time position so unappealing that I would hope she'd quit and move on. I really don't want it to come down to letting her go - I really don't want to do that. I've read a lot of posts on here and know the throw-away horror stories when it comes to employers. I do care about her as a person, but she's done so much damage that it's going to be impossible to heal this.

I'm worried about the fact that she might try to come after us. She is an hourly employee, and is under no type of contract or legally binding agreement. If it comes down to letting her go, am I OK to do it, or do I need to worry about retaliation?

I'm just struggling with this all - we're an organization that focuses on caring for people, and I don't feel very good inside moving down this road. But ... for the sake of everyone else, I feel it's what I have to do. Had this been happening for a short time, there might be some hope to reconcile, but this has been going on for a few years now ... knowing her and everyone else, it's not gonna happen.

What would you do in my situation? I'm certainly open to suggestions!!

Thanks everyone for your taking the time to read this and to offer replies.

 

[cbg]

Wisconsin is an at-will state. You can fire her for any reason not expressly prohibited by law. What kind of "retaliation" are you afraid of?

 

[justalayman]

Her position is titled "Financial Secretary", implying that she has no real leadership role

. so none of the people known as "Secretary of" [the Treasury] [the Interior] [Defense] [etc.] have no real leadership role?

to me, financial secretary suggests a higher level roll in the company. A financial secretary is often a policy making position within a company.

anyway...

a person is not defined by their title as much as they are by their role.

She has a hostile attitude, refusing to let our computer personnel work on her machine. Last week, she went to our preschool administrator and accused her of underpaying her summer help teachers from three years ago! NO basis for that.

so, she is your subordinate? This suggests you are not performing your job well. Why is she allowed to tell the computer tech to stay away from her (is this really her computer or is it a company computer) computer? Why did you not give her direction as to her responsibilities or require her to "check with you" before taking actions such as you describe?

I just found out that while I was gone on vacation, she looked through some folders in my office.

and?


what did you say to her once you found out? If nothing, then she will assume it was okl.



but that begs the question, why wasn't it ok? Was it to obtain info necessary to do whatever she was doing?



.

I'm thinking that now is the time to make that move, and to make the part-time position so unappealing that I would hope she'd quit and move on. I really don't want it to come down to letting her go - I really don't want to do that.

get off the fence. Do you want her working for you or not? Take action to end with the result you choose.

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WISCONSIN

I've come into a rather big problem with our bookkeeper. We're a non-profit religious organization, and I have oversight of five other employees. I've only been with the organization about four months now, but I'm beginning to see that the bookkeeper is causing some real issues.

Her position is titled "Financial Secretary", implying that she has no real leadership role. The person I replaced, however, had pretty much kept his hands off when she began helping herself to other people's work and taking it to herself. She had worked in a similar office before ours where she did have a leadership role overseeing some other employees.

She has a hostile attitude, refusing to let our computer personnel work on her machine. Last week, she went to our preschool administrator and accused her of underpaying her summer help teachers from three years ago! NO basis for that. I just found out that while I was gone on vacation, she looked through some folders in my office. No one else in the office enjoys working with her - I think some are even intimidated by her. There's some other stuff as well, but it's been a very uncomfortable situation.

I've been biding my time, documenting these little mishaps. However, I'm going to have to do something about her before the rest of my GOOD staff quits! I've not really addressed any of this with her as of yet, because I'm trying to figure out how best to proceed. I really think we're beyond the point of trying to sit her down to reconcile differences and do an attitude adjustment on her. She has isolated herself so much from the other staff that I don't really think this would work.

Last week, I found out that she created a huge mess at the last place she was at, and I received confirmation that her bookkeeping skills leave a lot to be desired.

I had intended to reduce her position from full-time to part-time for awhile now. I'm thinking that now is the time to make that move, and to make the part-time position so unappealing that I would hope she'd quit and move on. I really don't want it to come down to letting her go - I really don't want to do that. I've read a lot of posts on here and know the throw-away horror stories when it comes to employers. I do care about her as a person, but she's done so much damage that it's going to be impossible to heal this.

I'm worried about the fact that she might try to come after us. She is an hourly employee, and is under no type of contract or legally binding agreement. If it comes down to letting her go, am I OK to do it, or do I need to worry about retaliation?

I'm just struggling with this all - we're an organization that focuses on caring for people, and I don't feel very good inside moving down this road. But ... for the sake of everyone else, I feel it's what I have to do. Had this been happening for a short time, there might be some hope to reconcile, but this has been going on for a few years now ... knowing her and everyone else, it's not gonna happen.

What would you do in my situation? I'm certainly open to suggestions!!

Thanks everyone for your taking the time to read this and to offer replies.

Have you been writing her up, or just making notes? If you're just making notes, then you're not accomplishing a thing except wasting paper.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

She smells like an embezzler. The aggressive personality is to prevent challenges. You do have proper check, cash and vendor controls in place correct? Review her wages to see if she has given herself a raise/frauded hours. When she has gone for the day, backup the accounting files. Continue these backups in case she screws the records up. It might not be a bad idea to allow another accountant to review her work so far.

 

[swalsh411]

Give her one warning that her behavior and attitude is to improve immediately. Document this meeting. If she does not comply, fire her.

I have no tolerance for workplace drama or those who cause it.

Your duty is to the best interest of the organization. You are failing in that duty if you do not handle this one way or the other.

 

[eerelations]

Why don't you just fire her and get it over with? What's this "retaliation" you're afraid of?

(And please note, reducing her hours and making her worklife a living hell doesn't strike me as being very religious thing to do, torture never is.)

 

[commentator]

I agree with swalsh wholeheartedly. I have spent many years watching employers deal with problem employees. I want to red flag something. This woman is stealing from your organization!! I would bet a large sum of money on it!!

However, you are pussyfooting around here like a shy teenager and not a real manager. You need to get rid of this woman.

If you want to fire her, you need to give her one warning about her demeanor, attitude, etc. Wait until the next time she does something concrete by which I do not mean in a few months, I mean like in the next few days. Like refusing to allow the audit team you call in to see her computer. Like snapping off disrespectfully to you. Just anything. Give her a short sharp reprimand. Be prepared for threats and drama and screaming meemies if you're going to take this route.

DO NOT bring up all the tea in China in this discussion you need to have with her immediately, regardless of what happened last year, or last summer, or what you heard what happened about her last job. A good manager will not passively keep notes without letting the person know there is a problem. You would in order to terminate her for misconduct without unemployment, have to show a real specific thing that she has done, a behavior that must change. And guess what? This is a whole systemic disorder, her personality is not going to change, she's a cancer to your organization. She needs to go. And trying to show misconduct and terminate her for cause will probably be futile.

So get rid of her. Quickly, firmly. If you don't want the conflict, to minimize the drama, say "Your position has been eliminated." and give her a separation notice saying "lack of work." Immediately. You are not required to give her severance or notice.

Warning: You are probably what is called a remimbursing employer for unemployment insurance purposes. While your agency probably does not pay regular unemployment taxes, when someone does actually qualify for benefits, which she very likely will, regardless of the reason she is separated, the agency will have to pay, dollar for dollar for her unemployment claim.

However, if, as I suspect, this woman has been at the very least making a complete mess of your finances, and at worst has siphoned off a goodly sum for her own personal enjoyment, it will be well worth it to be rid of her, even if you do have to pay her ten thousand or so in unemployment benefits. This is the action that will get her out, right away, without the headaches that will ruin your office morale for months to come.

Cutting her job to part time and then trying to make it so onerous that she quits is merely stupid. It is called "forcing a quit" and will get her unemployment benefits anyhow, and will create an ugly situation where she will be outraged and will still have her hand in the books and a wonderful opportunity to take her revenge on you financially. Not to mention the stink she will drum up with the other employees and her threats of lawsuits and outraged protests. She will "go to the board" whoever your supervisors are, and try to raise cain and make things bad for you. But make sure she is doing this after you have laid her off due to lack of work. Then she will have no real complaint except that you told her her position was being cut down and you no longer need HER. (You do not have any obligation to give her any explanation about whether or not you plan to refill the position or hire another part time or full time person to do the job.)

She has no recourse, she is in an "at will" state, and you can legally terminate her for any reason that is not because she is being hounded or mistreated because she is a member of a protected EEOC class and can definitively show that this was the reason she was being terminated.

I doubt very seriously if you are going to have genuine misconduct reason to fire her as soon as you need to. This is the only thing that would prohibit her from being approved for unemployment and costing your agency that money. When someone has carried along and allowed and put up with a problem person like this for a long time, usually their reason for firing her is a "shotgun effect" sort of reason. She did this, and then a year or two later, she did this, and she always does this, and she caused this to happen************** and it is not enough of a real clear cut reason right on the spot to save the agency from paying her unemployment. But it is a bargain, regardless.

Quickly, immediately, get people in to audit her work. Completely and thoroughly. I cannot tell you strongly enough that I have seen many occasions where a "bookkeeping gorgon" of the type you describe has been fired or laid off or let go, has been approved for unemployment benefits, and then in a few weeks or months, the employer calls us (the unemployment system) and screams, "I fired/laid off/let go Mary Jones, and she got approved for unemployment, and now I've found out that she had been embezzling from us!"

Our response, "You can press charges against her legally, but you cannot, at this point, stop her unemployment benefits." Once a person has been approved, and the time for appeals has passed, you cannot later stop their claim for additional discovery of misconduct that had occurred while they were working. But you can have her prosecuted, which may end her unemployment insurance anyway.

Man up here, and stop this workplace killing situation with a quick action.

 

[Sockeye]

I strongly support the term as soon as possible. If you feel you hae to give a reason be honest and simply say she's not a good fit.

What you do need is a game plan in place before you term. Have an audit team ready to go and make sure she hasn't access to credit cards, checks, vendor and online accounts, etc. Also no access to your computer network. In these circumstances it's good to have IT time the lock out when you bring her into the office for the term, then simply walk her out.

The scary thing is embezzlement is an equal opportunity crime, it's the one criminal activity where women equal men. It doesn't seem to matter by industry but one common similarity is smaller organizations- like yours.

Post Script- I want to be clear that there is no idea whether she's embezzled or not, just want to note it's far too common, especially when clear checks and balances are not in place.

 

[eerelations]

Even if she's not an embezzler, she should be fired anyway.

 

[commentator]

But this behavior that is described is a huge red flag. I'm old enough now to look back and see certain things, and one of them is that if someone is very "territorial" about their little area, especially when it involves money, is downright hateful to people who are merely civil to them, and are very very hard to deal with, they are usually hiding something. Agree wholeheartedly, you need to get rid of her even if the books are perfectly in order. She's undermining your whole career here.

 

[csi7]

As a treasurer for a not-for-profit organization, I agree that something is happening, whether it is embezzlement, or just transfer of funds through accounts, it's still not good money management. Definitely get a forensic accounting done as well as the audit, and have the computers all verified by independent computer checks to make sure she didn't have a back-up "file" on some other employee. All these have happened, and as commentator mentions, the "red flag" for any accounting position is not letting your information be viewed openly.

As a manager, you need to keep a specific business focus in your business dealings with all of your staff. This is professional standards for accounting purposes, and it allows you to work with the facts in all situations. You do need to remove the problems involved with a specific person and keep those separate, and resolve conflict of information issues with a clear resolution method.

Please take the time in private to express your feelings personally privately, and then leave those personal feelings aside for the business decision you must make in this situation.