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  1. #1
    ICB2150 is offline Junior Member
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    Question What do i say at an ides fact finding hearing in the state of illinois?

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ILLINOIS
  2. #2
    cbg
    cbg is offline Senior Member
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    Since we haven't a clue what your circumstances are, all we can suggest is that you tell the truth as you know it to be.

    Now, if you want some specific ideas, you're going to have to give us more to go on.
    Two things I am tired of typing: 1.) A wrongful termination does not mean that you were fired for something you didn't do; it means that you were fired for a reason prohibited by law. 2.) The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding contract or CBA expressly says otherwise. If it does, the terms of the contract apply.
  3. #3
    Beth3 is offline Senior Member
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    I presume this is for an unemployment hearing. Ditto to what cbg said. All you can do is state the truth.

    If you want to give us more info to go on, you'll get more specific advice.
    A person, who is nice to you, but rude to a waiter, is not a nice person. (This is very important. Pay attention. It never fails.)
  4. #4
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    A 'fact finding' is a hearing held by the unemployment ajudicator before the initial decision is made either approving or denying benefits to the claimant.

    It is usually held when there in conflicting information between what the claimant says is the reason they are no longer working for this employer, and what the employer said when asked to verify the reason why the claimant is no longer working for them. For example, if the claimant has marked that they were laid off due to lack of work on their claim form, and the employer reports they were fired for chronic absenteeism, this would be something that would have to be resolved before there could be a decision rendered about the claimant's approval to draw unemployment benefits. The ajudicator decides that they cannot even begin to make a legitimate decision without talking to both parties and getting more information. They may actually have both parties present, or they may do a conference call with both parties, or they may just call the parties one at a time. It doesn't really matter.

    After the fact finding, this ajudicator will render an initial decision. That will be your last contact with that particular ajudicator. They do NOT preside at your future appeals hearing.

    This decision is subject to appeal by either party. An appeal of the initial decision will result in a formal appeals hearing, at which both parties have the right to be present either in person or by telephone, presided over by an appeals officer/judge/referee depending on the term used in your state. After this hearing, then the second decision is made.

    What to say in the fact finding? Answer any and all questions put to you by the ajudicator in an honest and straightforward manner. This is not a formal hearing, just an attempt to find out the correct facts of the situation.
  5. #5
    ICB2150 is offline Junior Member
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    Question Il ides inquiry

    Sorry about that, I'm somewhat overwhelmed. Here's the scenario:

    I was terminated on 5/19/2011 for excessive tardiness, per none received termination documents. I believe I was actually fired for not meeting departmental stats and not tardiness.

    Stats are quotas. I did not meet the monthly 90% availability quota. I average 82%. Even with this below average availability quota, I received a monthly bonus payout. My bank statements will prove direct deposit bonus payments.

    I will also claim when I was given the productivity notice there was no mention of having excessive tardies or unexcused absences. Since the majority of my tardies are listed during my probationary period (per determination doc), this seems fishy. Annual performance reviews from 2oo8-2010 never mentioned a tardiness/unexcused absence problem. What do I say and bring to the 5/31/11 IDES fact finding inquiry to help me receive UI benefits?
  6. #6
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    You do not have to provide proof from your bank statements that you received bonuses. This is not CSI, you do not need to present forensic evidence, this is your word for what happened against the word of the employer. If this happened as it probably happened, from what I'm hearing here, they will not be interested in whether or not you received bonuses anyway.

    The fact finding is more a question and answer session, not a speech or presentation. You will be asked something like, "What happened the last day you worked? What were you told when you were called in and told you were being terminated? What did your letter of termination say?" If you have this document, present it. By the way, I do not know what " ..per none received termination documents" means, and I am sure the ajudicator will not have a clue either. Did you or did you not receive a termination document that says you were terminated for tardiness?

    The huge and most important question of course is Were you tardy on the day you were terminated? Had you been tardy before with documentation and warnings? What was the company policy on tardiness? Had it been spelled out to you? Did you know that if you were tardy again you were apt to lose your job?

    Do not try to turn this into a court case or to present your case in a legal manner. This is just going to be a person talking to you, asking you questions, finding out facts.

    Incidentally, if you were performing poorly AND being tardy, they do not have to take your performance into consideration or say that was the reason you were terminated.

    Tardiness is one of the easiest ways to terminate a problem employee and keep them from drawing unemployment benefits. If they had a clear cut policy, such as "three tardies within a 12 month period means termination" and you gave them the required number of tardies, then they can fire you for tardiness, even if you were also having other problems and they actually wanted to get rid of you for another reason, or if you were otherwise the most ideal of employees.

    If you were tardy due to a medical issue on the last day, such as "I had to go to a doctor's appointment" or "I fainted while getting ready for work and was rushed ot the hospital" and you can provide a medical statement, and you notified your employer as soon as possible, then you may be able to prevail in an unemployment situation, but the company is still allowed for fire you for it, regardless. Most tardiness is considered due to personal situations, "Bad traffic on the way to work" or "My car wouldn't start" or "my sitter was late." These are considered personal excuses, over which you had control.

    The strongest case you might have for unemployment approval is if you were NOT tardy on the last day you worked, and you had not had any previous write ups and warnings about tardiness at all, and were totally unaware of the company policies on tardiness.

    In that case, if the company called you in and told you that you were being terminated for tardiness (referring back only to the number of tardinesses in your probationary period) you'd have a relatively strong case that you had been terminated for performance issues. Then what you'd need to say is that you were given no feedback that your performance was not adequate, that you always did the job to the best of your abilities, and that you received all the bonuses and good reviews that caused you to think your job performance was adequate.

    But if you were tardy, if you did give them this one to throw at you, you cannot then turn around and start arguing that you REALLY were not terminated for what they said you were terminated for, you were actually terminated for something else. Because if it is true, if you were tardy, then they get to pick whether they elect to fire you for it or not, regardless of your other work problems. A competent ajudicator or appeals judge will not allow you to hijack the termination issue in this manner.

    A lot will depend on whether the company has good documentation of your tardiness issues.
    Last edited by commentator; 05-27-2011 at 11:00 AM.
  7. #7
    ICB2150 is offline Junior Member
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    Unhappy Ides inquiry

    No, I was not tardy on the date of termination based on company policy.
    No, I did not receive a letter of termination.

    Yes, I am familiar with the company policy;yes- the company documented my tardies.

    No, I don't believe the documentations are correct based on the company tardy and 12 month threshold policies.

    Please know I am not tring to turn this into a court case.

    I am only trying to present a fair and honest perspective of what happen at work.
  8. #8
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    Was the termination due to a tardiness that had occurred, say in the last few days? In other words, what it's going to come down to is "Having full knowledge that you were about to be terminated for tardiness, knowing that you had, according to company policy, had enough tardy issues that you knew it was going to result in your termination if you were tardy one more time, did you willfully and knowingly then have another tardy?

    Since the company is saying they terminated you for tardiness, I do not see any advantage to you in trying to tell the ajudicator that you weren't in fact fired for tardiness, you were really fired for poor performance. Why would you be dumb enough to bring another possible misconduct issue into the discussion that the employer has not even brought up? They either can or can't prove that you were willfully and knowingly committing misconduct by being tardy in violation of company policy, or you were not.

    "Fair and honest" is a beautiful idea, but in this situation, in unemployment law, we're not trying for the whole big picture of the moral issues of this company or your employment history. We are just trying to figure out if the company had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you. They chose exactly what they wanted to say was the reason they are terminating you. whether it's "honest and fair" or not doesn't matter. Is it a valid misconduct issue?

    While it would have been easier for you to defend receiving unemployment if they had, in fact, terminated you for performance issues, if they don't say it, don't you mention it either. There is absolutely no benefit to your case to do so. If they ask why you went into the performance issue situation when you filed your claim, say, "I don't feel that I was really terminated for tardiness, since I had not had an incident of tardiness since...... I think the company tried to use tardiness as an excuse to get rid of me for other reasons." You do not need to go into whether or not you got merit raises, etc, unless you are asked about it.

    Once they have committed to "We fired him because he was tardy" then they can't in later hearings or appeals, bring in, "...and oh, by the way, he was also a lousy performer, and he didn't meet our production quotas," They have to stick by whatever reason it was they gave when you were terminated.

    They will be asked in detail about what the company policies about tardiness are. If they have those policies clearly stated in a handbook, and you were given the appropriate warnings in obedience to those policies, that's easy for them to document. If they do not have the policies clearly stated, and as you believe, they were not following any clear cut policy related to how many tardinesses are appropriate---or if they do not have a precipitating indicent of any kind, if they came up and said, 'Oh by the way, we are terminating you at this time for those tardiness incidents you had seven months ago" then you will have a strong possibility of getting approved.

    But remember, no matter what is said, what is done in this initial hearing, either you or the employer can appeal this decision and then there will be the real official hearing. So don't get too excited about this one.
    Last edited by commentator; 05-27-2011 at 12:47 PM.
  9. #9
    ICB2150 is offline Junior Member
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    Question IDES Appeal for IL

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ILLINOIS is my state.

    Can an employer file an appeal to disqualify the IDES benefits I was awareded? How long does the employer has to file an appeal against an awarded judgement? If the company does not appeal the IDES judgement, does that mean I was wrongly terminated?
  10. #10
    cbg
    cbg is offline Senior Member
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    Yes, the employer can appeal, just as you could appeal if the decision goes against you. The losing party can always appeal. I don 't know offhand what the timeframe to appeal is in IL. It's usually only about ten days or so.

    Whether the company does or does not appeal has nothing to do with whether you were wrongfully terminated. In fact, whether you do or do not receive unemployment has nothing to do with whether you were wrongfully terminated. A wrongful term is a whole different animal - that is NOT what the UI office is determining. The vast majority of people collecting unemployment were legally termed; you were not wrongfully terminated unless the employer violated a law by terming you. IL is an at will state; regardless of whether you were *actually* fired for tardiness or for not meeting departmental stats, you were not wrongfully termed. Either is a legal reason to term you; neither is a violation of any law. The decision to award you unemployment is based on a different standard than that.
    Two things I am tired of typing: 1.) A wrongful termination does not mean that you were fired for something you didn't do; it means that you were fired for a reason prohibited by law. 2.) The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding contract or CBA expressly says otherwise. If it does, the terms of the contract apply.
  11. #11
    commentator is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by commentator View Post
    "
    But remember, no matter what is said, what is done in this initial hearing, either you or the employer can appeal this decision and then there will be the real official hearing. So don't get too excited about this one.
    Second verse, same as the first.

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