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Wrongful firing and withholding wages

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swagmonkey

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts

A couple months ago, a friend was fired from her workplace for calling in sick without enough notice. We knew it was illegal, and reported the incident to higher-ups in the same company (who were not pleased) but didn't take it beyond the company. Because it's a franchise, branch owners are not as directly supervised by the bigwigs. The friend didn't like the job and wouldn't have stayed long, so she didn't pursue anything at the time.

Now my girlfriend, at the same company, was fired (incidentally, on the last day of the 2-weeks notice she had given them that she was leaving -- really, who fires someone on their last day at work?) She really didn't want to deal with them any more, so she told them to mail her last check. After delaying a couple weeks, the check has finally arrived, but they deducted $30 for her work shirt. They say they'll pay the last $30 when she returns the shirt, but it has already been thrown out -- and besides, when they gave her the shirt, they didn't say they were only lending it, so it is her shirt now.

I'm pretty sure this is illegal, and we really don't have any patience for them any more. We'd like to report BOTH incidents, now that they've given us another excuse. Who do we report it to?
 


Isis1

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts

A couple months ago, a friend was fired from her workplace for calling in sick without enough notice. We knew it was illegal, and reported the incident to higher-ups in the same company (who were not pleased) but didn't take it beyond the company. Because it's a franchise, branch owners are not as directly supervised by the bigwigs. The friend didn't like the job and wouldn't have stayed long, so she didn't pursue anything at the time.

Now my girlfriend, at the same company, was fired (incidentally, on the last day of the 2-weeks notice she had given them that she was leaving -- really, who fires someone on their last day at work?) She really didn't want to deal with them any more, so she told them to mail her last check. After delaying a couple weeks, the check has finally arrived, but they deducted $30 for her work shirt. They say they'll pay the last $30 when she returns the shirt, but it has already been thrown out -- and besides, when they gave her the shirt, they didn't say they were only lending it, so it is her shirt now.

I'm pretty sure this is illegal, and we really don't have any patience for them any more. We'd like to report BOTH incidents, now that they've given us another excuse. Who do we report it to?
your girlfriend needs to report HER incident. and the "friend" needs to report their own.

and if the company paid for the shirt, and depending on the contract, she could well owe for the shirt.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts

A couple months ago, a friend was fired from her workplace for calling in sick without enough notice. We knew it was illegal, and reported the incident to higher-ups in the same company (who were not pleased) but didn't take it beyond the company. Because it's a franchise, branch owners are not as directly supervised by the bigwigs. The friend didn't like the job and wouldn't have stayed long, so she didn't pursue anything at the time.

Now my girlfriend, at the same company, was fired (incidentally, on the last day of the 2-weeks notice she had given them that she was leaving -- really, who fires someone on their last day at work?) She really didn't want to deal with them any more, so she told them to mail her last check. After delaying a couple weeks, the check has finally arrived, but they deducted $30 for her work shirt. They say they'll pay the last $30 when she returns the shirt, but it has already been thrown out -- and besides, when they gave her the shirt, they didn't say they were only lending it, so it is her shirt now.

I'm pretty sure this is illegal, and we really don't have any patience for them any more. We'd like to report BOTH incidents, now that they've given us another excuse. Who do we report it to?


Why do you think it's illegal?
 

eerelations

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts

A couple months ago, a friend was fired from her workplace for calling in sick without enough notice. We knew it was illegal...
That was your first mistake.

Regarding your girlfriend's issue, you can't do anything about this.

If your girlfriend wants to do anything about it, she should file a claim with her state or the federal DOL for unauthorized deductions from her pay. Before she does that, however, she needs to make sure that, 'way back when she signed all those documents on her first day of work, she didn't sign something stating she agreed to have the cost of her uniform taken out of her final pay if she didn't return said uniform to the company upon termination.
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
You seem to be far too interested in the business of other people. Unless you have power of attorney, you can't do anything for either of these people.
 

antrc170

Member
In the first situation your friend was legally fired unless there was a contract in place. MA is an "at-will" employment state which means the company can fire an employer for almost any reason, regardless of how trivial. Failing to follow procedure in calling in sick meets the minimum cause for termination.

In the second situation, if the company provided the uniform to the employee and the employee paid no expense for that uniform, the company can (and probably will) argue that it is company property, therefore they can withhold a reasonable amount to compensate them for the loss of their property.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Unless your friend's illness was covered under an already-applied-for-and-approved FMLA, then firing her for "calling in sick without enough notice" may or may not have been ridiculous on the part of the employer but was not illegal. What made you think it was?

I completely agree that it is foolish to fire someone on the last day of work but that's not illegal either.

The only situation on which she may have any possible leg to stand on is their withholding $30 pending return of the shirt. She (not you, she - there is no We in this at all) can file a complaint with the state.

File a Wage Complaint - Attorney General Martha Coakley - Mass.Gov
 

commentator

Senior Member
And most people think that they (or their friends!) have many more workplace rights than they actually do. Being terminated for absences, with or without notice, excuse, whatever, does not give her any grounds to complain to anybody, especially within the company, which she no longer works for anyway, since she is fired. What do you think they'd do, reinstate her? Nope. Except in a situation where she was eligible for FMLA and was fired for absences without being given FMLA, there's no illegality.

The only place it might be an issue whether or not she was fired for calling in sick without enough notice is that if she filed for unemployment benefits. They would be interested in whether or not she had a medical excuse for the call in. If she did, it would be considered a non-fault absence, the termination would likely not be enough to stop her from receiving unemployment benefits if she was otherwise eligible. The unemployment system looks at it that if you had a situation serious enough to seek medical attention, you weren't able to help it, so it's a non fault termination. It's not illegal for the employer to fire her for it, as you said you believed it was, but your friend might have been eligible for unemployment insurance if she filed.

Likewise unemployment insurance would be the only place where being terminated on the last day someone worked out their two week notice might become an issue. It is pretty common for the company to tell the person to go on and leave as soon as they give their notice, without allowing them to pick the date they will be leaving. This is not illegal. To let someone work up to the last day and then saying, you're fired, isn't so common. Perhaps the manager was just trying to be mean to the person, deliver them a little slight or hurt by firing them the last day they were there, but in unemployment insurance issues, that might be a very bad idea for the business if they did not want to have the person draw benefits.

A person who gives notice and resigns is not going to be eligible for unemployment under most conditions, but a person who is fired may be if the employer cannot show a good misconduct reason to fire them. Suddenly firing someone on the last day they are there, unless it was for gross misconduct (she decided to tell the boss and her co workers where to go on that last day, or deliberately destroyed equipment or stole or something of that sort)
and she might qualify for benefits if she had filed.

But the only illegal thing here is the withholding of the $30 or the holding of the last check until the shirt was returned. Even if the company has an agreement with the employee that they have to return their shirt or be charged, they must still be paid for all the time they worked, their final check can't be held or something of this sort. The state's DOL wage and hour division would be the ones for your friend to ask about this.
 
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swagmonkey

Junior Member
No, I'm not going to file the complaint for her -- my girlfriend (Mary) wants to file the complaint, but I just posted here to help investigate for her how to go about that.

No one is asking for unemployment benefits. Honestly, there is nothing either of us expects to gain personally from this, aside from the last $30 of Mary's paycheck. This employer treated her terribly, though, and in these couple cases we believe he has legal culpability, and it's more about holding him accountable than it is about what she can get back. The national company, the headquarters, awarded Mary employee of the month because of all the great comments about her from customers, yet she felt disrespected and verbally abused by her bosses in the local branch and quit over the issue. Firing on the last day of two-weeks notice was an aside -- I think it's totally ridiculous, but I'm not claiming it as a legal issue.

Yes, you can be fired for most reasons in today's workplace, but I believe that calling out sick (when you really are sick, of course) is NOT one of those reasons. Sick time is legally protected, isn't it? To be clear, there is no pattern of sickness, or reason to think she might be calling out sick more often than she is sick -- this was the FIRST day she (Laura) had ever called out sick from work, and she was fired on the spot. She did not "fail to follow procedure" regarding sick calls -- there WAS no procedure for it laid out at this workplace. She was sick, so she called to let her manager know, and he fired her for it. She was not even asking to be paid for the time she was out sick, but did not expect to lose her job for it either. Please clarify for me: is it legal to fire someone for calling in sick? Mary is asking this friend to file something separately, and she seems to agree. Both felt they were treated terribly during the time they worked there.

The company had nothing about the shirt in their contract, nor was anything verbally specified when it was given to Mary. Laura was not charged for her shirt, nor were other workers who left the company during the time Mary worked there. There was absolutely no reason to believe the company was retaining any rights to the shirt until months later, and it represents an inequity in the policy towards Mary and towards everyone else. I think they're just spiteful. The wages as reported on her final statement, and which will be reported to the government at tax time, are $30 higher than what she was actually paid.

Mary's employer was verbally abusive to her and to Laura throughout their time working there, and they're both pretty angry about the way they were treated. Mary views this as a way to fight back -- she wants there to be consequences to this employer for his actions, much more so than she wants any personal gain.
 

CSO286

Senior Member
No, I'm not going to file the complaint for her -- my girlfriend (Mary) wants to file the complaint, but I just posted here to help investigate for her how to go about that.

No one is asking for unemployment benefits. Honestly, there is nothing either of us expects to gain personally from this, aside from the last $30 of Mary's paycheck. This employer treated her terribly, though, and in these couple cases we believe he has legal culpability, and it's more about holding him accountable than it is about what she can get back. The national company, the headquarters, awarded Mary employee of the month because of all the great comments about her from customers, yet she felt disrespected and verbally abused by her bosses in the local branch and quit over the issue. Firing on the last day of two-weeks notice was an aside -- I think it's totally ridiculous, but I'm not claiming it as a legal issue.

Yes, you can be fired for most reasons in today's workplace, but I believe that calling out sick (when you really are sick, of course) is NOT one of those reasons. Sick time is legally protected, isn't it? To be clear, there is no pattern of sickness, or reason to think she might be calling out sick more often than she is sick -- this was the FIRST day she (Laura) had ever called out sick from work, and she was fired on the spot. She did not "fail to follow procedure" regarding sick calls -- there WAS no procedure for it laid out at this workplace. She was sick, so she called to let her manager know, and he fired her for it. She was not even asking to be paid for the time she was out sick, but did not expect to lose her job for it either. Please clarify for me: is it legal to fire someone for calling in sick? Mary is asking this friend to file something separately, and she seems to agree. Both felt they were treated terribly during the time they worked there.

The company had nothing about the shirt in their contract, nor was anything verbally specified when it was given to Mary. Laura was not charged for her shirt, nor were other workers who left the company during the time Mary worked there. There was absolutely no reason to believe the company was retaining any rights to the shirt until months later, and it represents an inequity in the policy towards Mary and towards everyone else. I think they're just spiteful. The wages as reported on her final statement, and which will be reported to the government at tax time, are $30 higher than what she was actually paid.

Mary's employer was verbally abusive to her and to Laura throughout their time working there, and they're both pretty angry about the way they were treated. Mary views this as a way to fight back -- she wants there to be consequences to this employer for his actions, much more so than she wants any personal gain.
1. Please post a citation or statute that prohibits an employer from termianting a person for calling in sick. Hint: It doens't exist.

2. In an at-will state, a person can be fired for any reson outside of those already protected by law.

3. Mary needs to review the paperwork she signed when she was hired (that entire HR packet). When an employer supplies uniforms, there are usually specific conditions attached to the care and ownership of said uniforms as well as where/when they may be worn. Uniforms must be kept clean and neat, may only be worn during empkoyee's scheduled shifts, etc.....
 

swagmonkey

Junior Member
3. Mary needs to review the paperwork she signed when she was hired (that entire HR packet). When an employer supplies uniforms, there are usually specific conditions attached to the care and ownership of said uniforms as well as where/when they may be worn. Uniforms must be kept clean and neat, may only be worn during empkoyee's scheduled shifts, etc.....
There is no HR packet -- they never gave her a copy. That's probably a violation in itself. If they were even trying to do it legally, wouldn't the deduction be reflected on the statement/stub? Instead they wrote her a check for less than what THEIR OWN STATEMENT listed.
 

Hot Topic

Senior Member
No, I'm not going to file the complaint for her -- my girlfriend (Mary) wants to file the complaint, but I just posted here to help investigate for her how to go about that.

No one is asking for unemployment benefits. Honestly, there is nothing either of us expects to gain personally from this, aside from the last $30 of Mary's paycheck. This employer treated her terribly, though, and in these couple cases we believe he has legal culpability, and it's more about holding him accountable than it is about what she can get back. The national company, the headquarters, awarded Mary employee of the month because of all the great comments about her from customers, yet she felt disrespected and verbally abused by her bosses in the local branch and quit over the issue. Firing on the last day of two-weeks notice was an aside -- I think it's totally ridiculous, but I'm not claiming it as a legal issue.

Yes, you can be fired for most reasons in today's workplace, but I believe that calling out sick (when you really are sick, of course) is NOT one of those reasons. Sick time is legally protected, isn't it? To be clear, there is no pattern of sickness, or reason to think she might be calling out sick more often than she is sick -- this was the FIRST day she (Laura) had ever called out sick from work, and she was fired on the spot. She did not "fail to follow procedure" regarding sick calls -- there WAS no procedure for it laid out at this workplace. She was sick, so she called to let her manager know, and he fired her for it. She was not even asking to be paid for the time she was out sick, but did not expect to lose her job for it either. Please clarify for me: is it legal to fire someone for calling in sick? Mary is asking this friend to file something separately, and she seems to agree. Both felt they were treated terribly during the time they worked there.

The company had nothing about the shirt in their contract, nor was anything verbally specified when it was given to Mary. Laura was not charged for her shirt, nor were other workers who left the company during the time Mary worked there. There was absolutely no reason to believe the company was retaining any rights to the shirt until months later, and it represents an inequity in the policy towards Mary and towards everyone else. I think they're just spiteful. The wages as reported on her final statement, and which will be reported to the government at tax time, are $30 higher than what she was actually paid.

Mary's employer was verbally abusive to her and to Laura throughout their time working there, and they're both pretty angry about the way they were treated. Mary views this as a way to fight back -- she wants there to be consequences to this employer for his actions, much more so than she wants any personal gain.

The worst thing Mary can do is to encourage a boyfriend who takes a little too much interest in her business and or personal life. What if you were to decide one day you should choose where Mary worked, how she dressed and what kind of friends she should have?

What YOU believe is irrelevant. What Mary believes is irrelevant. YOU can't claim anything as a legal issue.
 

CSO286

Senior Member
There is no HR packet -- they never gave her a copy. That's probably a violation in itself. If they were even trying to do it legally, wouldn't the deduction be reflected on the statement/stub? Instead they wrote her a check for less than what THEIR OWN STATEMENT listed.
Just because she doesn't have a copy doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And with most of that paperwork, the employer isn't requried by law to provide her a copy.

She's grasping. Give it up. What kind of job was this anyway? If she's dickering over a shirt, all I'm coming up with is some sort of clerk-type postion.
 
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swagmonkey

Junior Member
Hot Topic -- that's totally irrelevant. I wasn't the one who decided this was an issue. Mary was terribly upset and wanted to do something about it. Am I supposed to ignore her, and say "not my problem"? Or maybe a good boyfriend would try to help her figure it out?

Regardless of how you feel about that, I'd ask you to stay out of my personal life. I'm not asking for your opinion about whether it makes sense for me to ask the question here. I'm only asking for an opinion about the legal issues involved, which you completely ignored.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Sick time is legally protected, isn't it?

No, it is not. In no state is sick time automatically protected, and I can guarantee you that it is not protected in MA. FMLA is protected, but not all or even most sick time qualifies for FMLA. Unless the time is FMLA, you can quite legally be fired for taking sick time. There are a few states where there is additional protection over and above FMLA, but MA is NOT one of them, and in NO state is ALL medical leave or ALL sick time automatically protected.

You are wrong about that. I don't know how else to say it. No offense intended; simply telling you the law.
 

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