Elbow on Downspout Missing

[mcmarsha67]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I have a rental and walked in on a real mess this last winter. The tenants vacated without notice. I found the damage really soon after they'd left. Plus, I have it set up that the utilities revert right back into my name so there would always be service to the place, so no problem there.

When I threw open the door, I saw that many of the walls had dropped from the ceiling in some places about as much as 1/2 an inch. They dropped as a result of the slab dropping. The house has a floating slab...no basement. We spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to figure out if the cause was done by broken water lines under the slab. This never turned up anything.

I recently learned from the neighbor at the rental that the elbow from off of one of the downspouts was discovered missing and replaced upon discovery without me being told about any of it. Also, major ice damming kept occurring due to the bad winter and water would make its way down into the walls/foundation. Yes, it was an exceptionally bad winter AND it was also discovered by a heating contractor that 2 heat pipes for two of the bedrooms were loose and 20% of the heat was being lost into the attic above which there is now some warping of the roof board. Also, the soffits have dropped and are moldy, there is some streaking coming from under the siding where the insulation was coming out, it looks as though the living room ceiling is sagging in one area, there are some light streaks in the ceiling in one of the bedrooms where it meets the outside wall, there is a spot on one of the other bedroom outside walls that won't take paint, the front porch is sunken in the front and 2 of the feaux support columns have fallen, the front of the house seems to have sunk, the gutters have been pulled out of place, etc., etc., etc. I am now to the point where all of the insulation is going to come out of the attic and a thorough look-see needs to take place up there.

Is this something that most insurance policies would cover or is the issue of maintenance going to be thrown at us. You can't take care of something that you don't know is occurring. If you inspect annually and all appears well, how would one know. I even have pictures of the house from the summer of '07 that shows all of the downspouts/elbows in place. The gutters look great, the porch supports are erect with no gapping at the top, the roof looks good with no curling at the edges nor waving of the boards as best can be seen. I was one for going on the roof every year with a gas driven blower to blow the tree seeds, leaves and such off the roof. The gutters are only about 2 years old and were in mint condition.

I've received a letter of denial stating that the attic was found by the structural engineer to be missing insulation between some of the rafters and that some of the soffits had insulation above them. From what little I can see from atop a ladder at the opening of the attic, the only insulation that was missing was above the unheated/non air conditioned garage. I have not gotten in the attic enough to really take a look at the soffit area. I do know this much, though, and that I did not have a problem with this until this last winter.

Sorry for the long post.

Do I have a leg to stand on here????What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

[moburkes]

Do you have a landlord policy? How long was the tenant gone? When you own property and have horrible weather, you should keep in touch with your tenants. You should check on your property more often. Do you live in the same city as the property or nearby it?

You've provided information about the damage, but not information about your insurance policy, the last time you spoke with/saw the tenant, the last time you saw the property, etc.

[mcmarsha67]

Originally Posted by moburkes

Do you have a landlord policy? How long was the tenant gone? When you own property and have horrible weather, you should keep in touch with your tenants. You should check on your property more often. Do you live in the same city as the property or nearby it?

Yes, I have a landlord policy. The tenant was gone about 2 weeks. I can not physically check on the property all that often as I work full time in another state. I had a property management company for my other house and they were a disaster, so got away from that. I know, as if this is so much better. I now have a better management company in place and you'd be surprised to learn who they were. At any rate, the prior property management company never visited the property anyways except to show it for the purpose of renting it. I was the one that did the annual inspection. The management company didn't even tell me about a small fire at the cut-off box for the a/c condenser unit until the following month when I inquired as to why the rent was for a lesser amount. It is then that they told me that the cost of repairs was taken out of the rent. Also, they received 2 months rent one month and sat on the second month's rent and didn't get it to me until after the due date for the second month's rent. They were just horrible. So I got away from that.

Are there typically some things that a landlord policy covers that a regular policy would not? I mean, I know it covers lost rental monies, but I thought that was about it. Also, would it cover lost rent if the actual damages were not deemed a covered claim? Doesn't that go hand in hand? I doubt it would cover any damages caused by a tenants neglect or failure to report to me any problems.

Originally Posted by moburkes

You've provided information about the damage, but not information about your insurance policy, the last time you spoke with/saw the tenant, the last time you saw the property, etc.

I saw the property the prior fall when I did my annual inspection and it was fine then. As for my policy, where in the policy should I be looking...just the exclusions section? There is a mention of maintenance. I always thought maintenance was like having the furnace and air conditioner cleaned, the sewer snaked, the gutters cleaned out, etc. Am I wrong in my thinking? I mean one does not typically go outside and look at their downspouts every day and rarely does it in the winter months. Also, one does not typically get into the attic and check out the furnace ducts very often. As a tenant, I wouldn't even think to do something like that.

As for the damage incurred as a result of ice back up, unless you are home the day that happens, you would not even know it occurs. If the ice is melted when you get home, how would you know except for the tell tale signs of damage it left in its wake? Not everyone is home 24/7...people take vacations and go off and visit families on holidays and such. Even if you are there, by the time you get the ice removed, the bulk of the damage could have occurred. Ice dams are not easily removed and take time to do so as I have learned. If you try to hire someone to remove the ice for you and the ice dams throughout your area have met catastrophic proportions that eat up the available professionals, you are then forced to do it yourself as a non-professional.

[xylene]

Why is your tenant responsible for problems with a floating slab foundation?

Just being blunt - it sounds like 99% of the houses problems are because it is sinking, heaving and all in all just uneven: from the foundation.

[mcmarsha67]

As you can see from the title of this thread, the elbow on the downspout was missing. Per our lease agreement, they (my tenants) are supposed to tell me immediately of any problem that they discover. That missing downspout elbow/extension allowed for the water to dump right into the foundation. When you have water dump right into the foundation, it is going to cause problems with your foundation AND your slab. This is just a known fact. I suppose I should clarify that the elbow/extension was in place when they rented the place and when my prior annual inspection took place. They are supposed to see to it that the property is as it was the day that they took possession...period.

[moburkes]

LL policies cover less than HO policies do. It will only cover loss of rents if the home has a tenant or would have had a tenant but due to the loss the tenant has to move elsewhere. It will also only cover loss of rents if that coverage was purchased.

You are not likely to have coverage for this. It appears much damage was not due to a covered loss.

Just becasue that property management company was bad doesn't mean that they are all bad. You needed one. You chose not to have one. I don't know what to tell you.

[xylene]

Originally Posted by mcmarsha67

As you can see from the title of this thread, the elbow on the downspout was missing. Per our lease agreement, they (my tenants) are supposed to tell me immediately of any problem that they discover. That missing downspout elbow/extension allowed for the water to dump right into the foundation. When you have water dump right into the foundation, it is going to cause problems with your foundation AND your slab. This is just a known fact. I suppose I should clarify that the elbow/extension was in place when they rented the place and when my prior annual inspection took place. They are supposed to see to it that the property is as it was the day that they took possession...period.

Your house did not heave because of 2 weeks being vacant.

Prove the tenant knew something or didn't know something.

You have a foundation with serious problems. Of a type typical for this sort of foundation in cold zones.

[mcmarsha67]

First, I was a renter for a number of years before becoming a homeowner. Every single place that I lived, I never had an inspection but once a year. That is standard practice, so a management company would not have provided any more inspections than I provided. That should not be the issue here. I researched it and found that the practice of a once-a-year inspection is done so that tenants aren't intruded upon so much so that they do not want to rent from you. Unfortunately for my next tenants, I have already informed them that I am going to be inspecting moreso and my new property manager is going to be driving by sporadically to at least view the outside of the home while in route to their destination. They said that they are okay with this. This will all be spelled out in the lease.

Second, I never said that the house heaved because of it being vacant for 2 weeks. I was asked how long the house was vacant before I found it. I simply answered that question. I don't think those 2 weeks played any major role or even a minor role in the problems it now has with respect to the missing elbow/extension, BUT believe it was all due to the ice damming AND missing downspout elbow/extension. No, I do not believe for a second that the normal movement caused all of this. I have owned that home for about 13 years now and this is the first time this has occurred.

Also, I already have learned from the neighbor that my tenant knew that the elbow/extension was missing and said, "that's her problem." Had he read his lease, he would have discovered that it clearly states in the lease that any problems that arise with respect to the property is to be brought to my attention immediately. I'm fairly certain a court would find my tenants had broken the lease when they chose to willingly keep that information from me and would also find them responsible for any costs for damages that may have resulted due to their negligence.

If this is the case, would insurance play any role in the monies needed to repair the foundation/slab/wall from ceiling damages or would I have to take my tenants to court and get a judgment and pray that I one day collect some money from them before they file bankruptcy and get out of paying me anything? I don't know how long the tenant was aware of the missing elbow/extension before it was pointed out to them.