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Water Damage to Wood Flooring in Co-op

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Ashore

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

I let the bath run and caused damage to the wood flooring in my Manhattan co-op. The super said that if the wood tiles are too thin to be sanded and re-sealed and I therefore need a new floor, I would have to pay for the asbestos abatement because the wood is mine but the floor underneath is the co-op's. I have $10,000 insurance for my property and $300,000 of coverage for damages to others. Since the floor underneath apparently belongs to the co-op, would not my coverage for damage to someone else pay for the co-op's new floor including the asbestos abatement? (The adjuster is coming tomorrow morning to inspect.)
 


justalayman

Senior Member
I'm trying to figure out how you believe you own anything whether it be the floor covering or the subflooring. Does your lease specify you are liable for floor final finish and the co-op be liable for the floor under the final covering or finish?
 

Ashore

Member
Water Damage to Wood Floor in Co-Op

I'm trying to figure out how you believe you own anything whether it be the floor covering or the subflooring. Does your lease specify you are liable for floor final finish and the co-op be liable for the floor under the final covering or finish?
Proprietary lease says: "If the Demised Premises ... shall be damaged by fire or other cause covered by multiperil policies carried by the Condominium, the Lessor shall at its own cost and expense repair or replace, subject to the limitations contained in the Condominium Declaration, the Demised Premises including the walls, floors, ceilings, pipes, wiring and conduits in the Apartment. The Lessor shall not be required to repair or replace, equipment, fixtures, furniture, furnishings or decorations installed by the Lessee or any of his predecessors in title."

In a co-op (where the ownership consists of shares in the co-op corporation) this is usually loosely interpreted as "they fix what's outside the walls and you fix what's within the walls."

In this instance, according to the super thus far, the wood tiles are within the walls (my responsibility), and the subfloor and its constructional elements are outside the walls (their responsibility).

So my question is - if I damaged what's theirs, can my insurance not pay for its repair?
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
So my question is - if I damaged what's theirs, can my insurance not pay for its repair?
In general, your liability insurance covers "damage" to the property of other caused by your negligence.

Your negligence caused damage to your wood floors.

The asbestos underlayment has to be removed because it is asbestos, not because it was damaged.

There may also be liability exclusions at play.

For example, the liability section of a Condominium Unit Owner's Policy excludes:

property damage to property rented to, occupied or
used by or in the care of any insured, including
property of the condominium. This exclusion does
not apply to property damage caused by fire, smoke
or explosion;
For a further analysis I would have to know the form number and title of your policy.

PS: If you don't want to incur the cost of asbestos removal, consider installing new flooring on top of the damaged flooring.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Proprietary lease says: "If the Demised Premises ... shall be damaged by fire or other cause covered by multiperil policies carried by the Condominium, the Lessor shall at its own cost and expense repair or replace, subject to the limitations contained in the Condominium Declaration, the Demised Premises including the walls, floors, ceilings, pipes, wiring and conduits in the Apartment. The Lessor shall not be required to repair or replace, equipment, fixtures, furniture, furnishings or decorations installed by the Lessee or any of his predecessors in title."

In a co-op (where the ownership consists of shares in the co-op corporation) this is usually loosely interpreted as "they fix what's outside the walls and you fix what's within the walls."

In this instance, according to the super thus far, the wood tiles are within the walls (my responsibility), and the subfloor and its constructional elements are outside the walls (their responsibility).

So my question is - if I damaged what's theirs, can my insurance not pay for its repair?
I disagree with your interpretation of who owns what. Your description is more inline with condo ownership. In a co op you are easentially a renter with your rights assigned per the master lease. You don't own the building. You own share in the co op company. Along with that, your liability for damages would also be controlled by the master lease.
 

Ashore

Member
Water Damage to Wood Flooring in Co-Op

For a further analysis I would have to know the form number and title of your policy.

PS: If you don't want to incur the cost of asbestos removal, consider installing new flooring on top of the damaged flooring.
Condominium Policy FP-7956
Amendatory Endorsement FE-2375
Condo Unit Policy Endorsement FE-3507

Re flooring on top - floor tiles have buckled, so not sure if that would work.

Thanks.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
So you live in a co op and have a condominium policy?

Is it possible you actually live in a condominium?

Regardless, whether the asbestos must be abated will be determined on the actual construct of the floor and what is actually damaged. I'm trying to figure out what exactly contains asbestos. My best guess is floor tiles. If so, depending on what the subfloor is will go along way as to whether you will have to abate the asbestos or can leave it in place. If a wood subfloor, there is a great possibility the asbestos would have to be removed since the wood underlayment is quite likely damaged as well. If a concrete floor, unless the asbestos tiles have lifted, they can likely be left in place.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
Condominium Policy FP-7956
Amendatory Endorsement FE-2375
Condo Unit Policy Endorsement FE-3507
The FP-7956 is State Farm's equivalent of the HO-6 and has the same exclusion (I have a copy of the policy).

The other two forms I don't have access to. You'll have to read them to see if they change anything.
 

Ashore

Member
Water Damage to Wood Flooring in a Co-Op

So you live in a co op and have a condominium policy?

Is it possible you actually live in a condominium?

I'm trying to figure out what exactly contains asbestos. My best guess is floor tiles. .
It's a co-op. According to State Farm, the terms for the insurance policy are interchangeable.

Nothing contains asbestos - I'm being told that when the glue on the building's tiles is boiled and examined microscopically there are traces which cannot be identified - could be iron, zinc, whatever. But it cannot be determined definitively that it is NOT asbestos. Under NYC Code as of 3 years ago, that situation requires a full abatement.

The floors are original to the building - I did not put them in. According to the Proprietary Lease as far as I can tell, the building is therefore liable for damages whether they caused them or not.
 

Ashore

Member
Water Damage to Wood Flooring in a Co-Op

Neither I nor Managing Agent could find anything in the Proprietary Lease saying building is not responsible when damage is caused by Lessee to equipment, fixtures installed by Lessor - floor is original to the building, not installed by me.

Managing Agent said she would "reach out" to building attorney to provide "language" saying that building is never responsible for any damage not caused by building.

Sounds like my issue now is a legal issue with the co-op board. Will be grateful for any guidance on how to proceed.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Proprietary lease says: "If the Demised Premises ... shall be damaged by fire or other cause covered by multiperil policies carried by the Condominium, the Lessor shall at its own cost and expense repair or replace, subject to the limitations contained in the Condominium Declaration, the Demised Premises including the walls, floors, ceilings, pipes, wiring and conduits in the Apartment. The Lessor shall not be required to repair or replace, equipment, fixtures, furniture, furnishings or decorations installed by the Lessee or any of his predecessors in title."

In a co-op (where the ownership consists of shares in the co-op corporation) this is usually loosely interpreted as "they fix what's outside the walls and you fix what's within the walls."

In this instance, according to the super thus far, the wood tiles are within the walls (my responsibility), and the subfloor and its constructional elements are outside the walls (their responsibility).

So my question is - if I damaged what's theirs, can my insurance not pay for its repair?
to the; they fix what's outside the walls...

That is not what the lease say at all. It says if damage is to areas covered under the co op's policy, they fix anythjng but they are not required to repair what the tenant or former tenant had installed. What they would be required to fix would be everything inside the apartment walls as well as outside the walls with the exception of tenant installed treatments.

So, you need to check the co op's policy to see what it covers. They may be liable for repairing everything.
 

Ashore

Member
So, you need to check the co op's policy to see what it covers. They may be liable for repairing everything.
I hope you're right. My previous post refers to this - Managing Agent is saying they're not responsible because I caused the damage even though I didn't put the floor in, but she could not find such language in the Proprietary Lease. She said their attorney will provide language to back that up.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
I hope you're right. My previous post refers to this - Managing Agent is saying they're not responsible because I caused the damage even though I didn't put the floor in, but she could not find such language in the Proprietary Lease. She said their attorney will provide language to back that up.
Never rely on the enemy's lawyer.

I suggest you have your own attorney review the lease and co-op documents and give you a written opinion.
 

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