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  1. #1
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    Illegal Parents, Legal Child

    What is the name of your state? NY

    The situation is this. A couple came to the US on a temporary VISA,
    and had a child here. The son is now a legal american citizen. THe
    parents VISA ran out, and they are now illegal immigrants. THey were
    refused another visa. The son is now 16 years old, not yet an adult.

    Say the parents have been found out and are scheduled to be
    deported. They wish to take their son with them back to their
    homeland, but the son does not want to go back. He wishes to remain
    on US soil and live his life here.

    What happens then? WHo wins? The son or the parents. Shouldn't the
    son win because he is a legal citizen, and no one has the right to
    take him off of US soil if he does not wish it. However, on the flip
    side, he is still not an adult.

    So i want to know who would win? Logically i think the son should be
    allowed to stay here, but knowing our immigration policies, there
    probably is some ridiculous loophole where he is going to be forced
    back to his homeland with his family.

    Thanks.


    Edit:
    And please when you guys reply, please state facts only. Opinions can't help me out at all here right now. So please don't state things like, "He SHOULD be given over to a foster parent" or "I THINK he'll be deported along with his family". No opinions, or guesses, or wishes, or any other logic-induced answers. Please please please. Thank you. I appreciate all the help i can get from thsi forum.
    Last edited by rebirthofham; 12-29-2006 at 06:17 PM.
  2. #2
    JETX is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebirthofham View Post
    What happens then? WHo wins? The son or the parents. Shouldn't the son win because he is a legal citizen, and no one has the right to take him off of US soil if he does not wish it. However, on the flip side, he is still not an adult.

    So i want to know who would win?
    Simple... his parents go home. He is not an adult (absent an emancipation order from a court) so he has to go with them. When he becomes a legal adult... he can return due to his citizenship.
  3. #3
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    are you sure?
    Immigration services have the right to deport an American Citizen?

    Wouldn't they put him in a relatives home or foster care?
    I thought it was illegal to deport an American citizen, adult or not.
  4. #4
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
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    They are not deproting the child. They are deporting the parents of a minor child that want to take their minor child with them. What rights would the U.S. have to remove custody of the child from the parents?
  5. #5
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    Its not so much that the government has the right to take away custody of a child from their parents. I was more talking about the protection that the government should offer the child for being an American Citizen.

    Just because he's a minor, he has no say in staying? Regardless of his non-adult status, he is a citizen. And as a citizen he is entitled to stay on American Soil. So therefore, shouldn't he be allowed to stay under the care of a foster home or relative?
  6. #6
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
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    You are suggesting the government remove a child from the custody of its' parents merely because he is a citizen.



    being a citizen gives him the right to stay as opposed to being booted. . It is one that cannot be denied by the government and they aren't doing such.
  7. #7
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    But they ARE preventing his right to stay on US soil, when they deport him along with his family.

    And because he's an American citizen, he doesn't have citizenship in their homeland country. SO if he gets deported back to his parents country, then he'll be an illegal immigrant.

    So, wouldn't they just make him stay here under foster care for 2 more years till he's 18? I don't understand how letting his parents take him, is NOT taking awy his right to stay here. He should be granted protection from the governement to stay here, regardless of his parents will.

    And i'm just trying to see if there are any ways that the child can stay here. I'm not trying to be argumentative or tick anyone off. Honestly that's not my point, and i'm sorry if i'm frustrating you. But i don't see WHY the US would ship him off with his parents. If he wished to stay here, he can stay at a foster parents care and they'll be his guardians till he's 18. Then they cease to be his guardians and he can reapply for his parents residency once he's 21.

    Isn't that a much more likely scenario?

    And is there a precedent to what you guys are stating? And i'm not trying to challenge you here, i genuinely wish to know all the facts. If you guys find any precedent or know of any, please tell me.
    Thank you for the replies, they've been much help.


    edit:
    And you stated that
    "You are suggesting the government remove a child from the custody of its' parents merely because he is a citizen."

    It isn't because he's "merely" a citizen. it is because he IS a citizen. Being a citizen isn't just a title or whatever, he is entitled to certain protections from the government, and one of them is the right to stay on US soil.

    And if they ship him off, that IS breaking that right to stay here. I can ask that ,"merely" because they are his parents, they can take him back to their country even though he's a citizen?

    Being a citizen of the US is in essence being a child of the United States. He may biologically be a child of his parents, but lawfuly he is a child of this land and should stay here.

    IF this is wrong, please tell me, and show me some proof. Once again i'm not challenging you, i just need all the facts that i can gather. Thank you again.
    Last edited by rebirthofham; 12-29-2006 at 08:09 PM.
  8. #8
    ImmigAttyLana is offline Senior Member
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    Look, you are posing these same hypothetical questions on a different forum. Isn't it pretty clear to you that if the parents wish to leave him with some friends or relatives while they are deported, they are free to do so? There is no need to get the government involved. So, what is the purpose of you asking these irrelevant questions? The US is not deporting the US citizen child. He would go with them if they make no arrangements for his stay with anyone else.

    By the way, if the parents are deported, then there is a high likelihood that they will not be able to return to the US even once the child turns 21 and sponsors them if they will be barred from reentering the US for a specific period of time.
    Thanks,
    Lana
    Immigration Attorney
    Admitted to practice in CA, AZ, IN and OH
  9. #9
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    You're not getting what i'm asking. And the reason i asked this question on several forums, is because it's better to gather information from different sites, instead of just one. Don't you agree?

    And also, I understand that if they wished for the son to stay here with relatives or friends, they can do so. But that's not what i'm asking. Read my posts carefully please.
    WHat i'm asking is IF the parents DON"T want to leave the son here with friends or faimly. BUT the son wishes to STAY here with friends or family, who will win?

    Tha'ts what i'm asking. I already know that if the parents wish, the son can stay here legally. But i wanna know what happens when the son and parents have differing decisions. Can the son stay here against his ILLEGAL parents will. And if he can, what are the ways that he can go about doing so.

    I don't understand why you are annoyed. Do you not see why i keep asking for precedents and stuff like that? Because i want to see if what people tell me is true.

    And its' not as clear as you make it sound, which is why i'm asking.
  10. #10
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
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    rebirthofham;1539318]But they ARE preventing his right to stay on US soil, when they deport him along with his family.
    No, they are not. What his rights are is that the governemnt cannot prevent him from staying within this country. They aren't doing that, his parents are.

    He should be granted protection from the governement to stay here, regardless of his parents will.
    This is where you are misunderstanding things. The government is not forcing the child to do anything. Again, his parents are. The fact is the government is not requiring the child to leave. The rights of citizenship give one the right to stay here. It is not something the governmentenforces but is actually a restriction upon the governments actions of deporting a person. They are NOT deprting the child. They are respecting the rights of a parent to control their child. If they did anything to the contrary, they would be guilty of interfering with a family relationship which would be wrong.
    But i don't see WHY the US would ship him off with his parents. If he wished to stay here, he can stay at a foster parents care and they'll be his guardians till he's 18.
    His wishes are irrelevent. UNtil he reaches the age of majority or is emancipated, his parents have the right to control him. The government does not have the right to interfere without justification. Thye don;t have that.

    It isn't because he's "merely" a citizen. it is because he IS a citizen. Being a citizen isn't just a title or whatever, he is entitled to certain protections from the government, and one of them is the right to stay on US soil.
    agan, you're misunderstanding his rights. He has the right as a citizen to be here. The government does not have the right to deport him. The government cannot deport him and they aren't.

    And if they ship him off, that IS breaking that right to stay here. I can ask that ,"merely" because they are his parents, they can take him back to their country even though he's a citizen?
    No, it is respecting the parents rights to control their child. Y

    Being a citizen of the US is in essence being a child of the United States. He may biologically be a child of his parents, but lawfuly he is a child of this land and should stay here.
    When he is old enough to determine his own actions he can come back. Until that point, he is under the control of his parents and that is what it is all about. It has nothing to do with the kids rights as a citiizen. It has everything to do with the parents rights to take thier child with them.
  11. #11
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    I understand.

    Alright, so new question. Haha.

    Looking at the circumstances, would it be possible for the son to go to court and file for emancipation from the parents?
    He would be entering a situation (if deported) where he does not speak the native language of his parents country. So he would be going to a school where he'd basically flunk every class. The parents cannot send him to an englishspeaking highschool because those are private and pretty ridiculously expensive.

    So if he did go back to the native country with his parents, his future would basically go down the drain. He'd have a hard time integrating himself back within the foreign culture too. Also, he'd be leaving the security of a life that he had been leading for the past 16 years.

    Would this be enough of a basis to sue for emancipation from his parents? Or is this the wrong forum to ask that question. But since ya'll have helped me out so far, i' think it'd be easier for you guys to grasp the situation.

    And once again thanks for the replies. i appreciate them. If i came off as rude or annoying, i apologize. I just wanted to know every facet, every different way, and any possible way for this child to stay in the US. It would be a nightmare for himt o move back into his parents native country and it'd be a shame because the past 16 years he'd basically throw away. Moving into a different country after 16 years of living here is pretty ridiculous, and no matter how good of a adapting person you are, it is going to cause problems for his future and future jobs.



    edit: and this isn't just hypothetical theorizing that i'm engaging ya'll in. This is an actual situation that is about to occur.

    Okay, another question (haha, i'm sorry guys). The parents are illegal and have been illegal for over 10 years. They also have an older son who is also illegal and has been illegal for ten years.

    If the LEGAL 16 yr-old son wanted to sponsor them for residency when he became 21, would they have to wait the 10-yr period? And can He even sponsor for residency for his older brother? Or is that not possible?

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by rebirthofham; 12-29-2006 at 10:43 PM.
  12. #12
    FLMommy is offline Member
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    You're overlooking one key element. In one of your posts you state that the son does not hold citizenship of the country his parents hold citizenships of, and that he can't because he is a US citizen.

    First of all, US citizens are allowed to have dual citizenships, secondly, most foreign countries allow dual citizenship and EVEN if they do not, then there are usually exceptions for children born abroad (US in this case) to parents that BOTH hold that particular countries citizenship.

    How are you so sure the son does not have dual citizenship?

    On another note, and I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the citizenship of the parents is irrelevent. If one would apply your reasoning (a 16 year old USC should have the right to stay in the US when he doesn't feel like leaving when his parents want him to leave with them), to a 16 year old who's parents were indeed US citizens, he would not have to leave against his will (either).
    Last edited by FLMommy; 12-29-2006 at 11:03 PM.
  13. #13
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    Yeah i got that already. I understand now.

    But what i'm asking is, can he win a legal battle for emancipation using the reasons i stated in my last post.

    That's my new question. Sorry guys.
  14. #14
    AHA
    AHA is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebirthofham View Post
    Yeah i got that already. I understand now.

    But what i'm asking is, can he win a legal battle for emancipation using the reasons i stated in my last post.

    That's my new question. Sorry guys.
    So he pays ALL his bills himself? He has a steady income that makes him afford to pay for his own home, his own utilities, his own insurances, his own transportation etc etc etc, without ANY monetary help from anyone or without any roommates? He is completely selfsufficient financially through his income?
  15. #15
    rebirthofham is offline Junior Member
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    This may be hard to believe. But the parents made a bank account under the son's name, and there is a substantial sum of money in it.

    So yes, he can pay for himself for the next 2 years.
    And, what would happen to all the money his parents made here, and their store? Would the governement seize it?
    Because if the government does Seize it, then its the same whether or not he's supporting himself or if his parents are suporting him.
    Because if the government does seize it, then the parents will have no source of income either.

    But say that the son has no money, even then, he can't be placed under care of foster family so they could support him for the time being. He's gonna be 17 in april, so it won't even be 2 years, more like 1 year 4 months.

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