Filed for UI Because in Need of Govt Help

[defendmyself]

Also not the OP.

yes I did have access to the paperwork and my boss would get pissed everytime the paperwork would get through, but he used to be a top management level at the unemployment office and was well known so he never fought the claim in order to save face. I know this because I overheard his conversations with HR, I will admit that perhaps I am missing some vital information since I only heard his side of the conversations and not HR's. When you are dealing with these level of people, the original rules go out the window. He has a separate file on this girl of all the emails and things she has said to him. She is very bizarre. I also saw paperwork that in one year she made 20k in unemployment benefits and 17k the other. It makes sense she made about 60k a year as a full time employee.

 

[eerelations]

Also not the OP.

I know. I was just hinting around that OP and others might not want to take this person too seriously.

 

[cbg]

I figured you knew, since you knew enough to check the post hx. I, too, was just clarifying for the masses.

 

[commentator]

Wowie, wonder what this gal has been smoking?

 

[commentator]

Wowie, wonder what this gal has been smoking?

I also saw paperwork that in one year she made 20k in unemployment benefits and 17k the other. It makes sense she made about 60k a year as a full time employee.

unless she saw this woman's federal tax returns, there is NOPLACE in the world she'd have come up with this information, even if she had been drawing this much this long, which is too ridiculous.

 

[Chyvan]

unless she saw this woman's federal tax returns, there is NOPLACE in the world she'd have come up with this information,

My state sends reserve account reports that show just this type of information. If she saw it at work, it's very possible.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

Different states all build their unemployment system structures around the federal guidelines, and some are more and some are less lenient in their definition of good cause to quit a job and collect unemployment benefits. But you can assume a few basic things. One is that the unemployment insurance is not needs based, in other words, that you do not get it due to need or personal circumstances, except how they relate to the reason you left the job. And that you must be out of work through no fault of your own, in whatever way the state interprets that phrase in their unemployment policies. As to quit in lieu of termination, there is a term loosely used, 'Got quit' which means that they were going to fire me anyhow, so I quit. An interesting one to adjudicate. Or was offered by the employer a chance to quit in lieu of firing, which the employer's love, because it means the burden of proof that they had good cause to quit the job was upon the claimant, not that the burden of proof that they had good cause to terminate was on the employer.

In the absence of federally funded extensions, which were in place during the recession and have been done away with at now for quite a while, 18 months is longer than anyone would get to draw unemployment benefits under any but the most unusual circumstances. And unemployment benefits are very private information, in that you would not have access to information about the claim or the decisions or the circumstances of the person who worked where you did before you were there unless you were directly involved with or had access to her approval or denial paperwork and even that might not provide the whole picture.

Thank you once more to those who offered their advice. I sent back the information to the DES. I attached the report I made answering the DES question and the main incidents that I encountered. Though, I am not sure if they will read a six page report. I also added my former employer policy against harassment and highlighted areas in it that happened to me specifically (not sure if adding the employer's policy was a smart or dumb move). Let's see what happens.

 

[commentator]

To the original poster. Sorry about the hijack. I think adding the policies was probably a very good idea. Let us know how the initial decision goes, and maybe we can help as the appeal progresses. Remember to make your weekly certifications and appropriate job searches.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

Also, just to be positive, be sure you are making the required weekly certifications for benefits. If you were to be approved, you'd be back paid only for weeks that you had certified for since you filed the claim.

Be well organized in your responses to the adjudicator's questions. Keep in mind that in spite of what you signed, you did NOT quit the job due to family reasons. You quit the job because of the terrible awful working conditions, after making management aware of the working conditions and situations that you were having trouble with, and making every reasonable effort to solve the problems without quitting the job. You decided that you had no reasonable alternative to quitting, because the job was causing you extreme emotional distress in spite of your good faith efforts to do a good job and to work out the situations with the employer. You could even say that you felt there was a concentrated effort to force you out by treating you significantly badly once you had begun to speak to people and try to get the situation changed.

But remember, the unemployment system is not the EEOC. It is not their job to provide you with unemployment just because you were exposed to racist comments or some sort of illegal mistreatment due to sex, race, creed, religion, etc. There's no automatic thing that if someone said something racist to you, that bears more weight than if they said they didn't like your green socks today. Don't make too big a deal of anything except that you spoke with your managers and with HR, and attempted to resolve the situation.

It is my suspicion that you will probably be denied in the initial appeal. If this happens, you will receive a notification that you have been denied, probably because you voluntarily quit your last job for personal reasons. You continue to make weekly certifications. You file an appeal, in which you do not have to make your argument, you merely state that you disagree with this decision denying you unemployment benefits and you wish to appeal it.

You will be given a time and place for a second hearing, at which the employer may also be present. At this time, another hearing officer will listen to both sides of the case and make a new decision about whether to grant unemployment. You never again mention that you signed something saying you quit for family reasons. You will, in this hearing, if you are asked about why you signed this, simply explain that you were told or encouraged to say this, rather than referencing the terrible work situation, so that you would be able to get a good reference from them.

I have an update on my situation. As expected, I got rejected. However, I think the Unemployment Caseworker just did not bother. They called me and left a message. I tried calling back three days in a row, but they never answered me. So today I got a "disqualified letter". Here is what the letter contained:

"Voluntarily Left Employment, A.R>S. 23-775.1, Working Conditions A.A.C.R6-3-50515.D.
You left your job because of working conditions. You have not shown that the job conditions were below the standards in your area for jobs like yours, or you did not tell your supervisor about the working conditions, and you did not give your employer a chance to improve them before quit. You left work without good cause in connection with your employment."


A couple of things I would like to point out:
- Seems like the unemployment office caseworker had the chance to to talk to my former employer, but not me.

- My supervisor has been well aware of the incidents that were happening, I have told them at least in one occasion explicitly about the work bulley. Unfortunately, I knew even if I had told them day-n-day out about the things that are happening! They would not have done anything! In fact they would have sided against me and made my life even more miserable. My supervisor is best buddies with the people I have been having trouble with! They hangout with them daily during/after work, parties with them and lives near them in the same complex. Not to mention, The themselves have been on the bullying, although against other "junior"colleagues not me. In fact, when they were asked to handle the incident where I was kicked out of a meeting, they twisted the blame to be on me as much as it was on the other supervisor who kicked me out (also their friend off work and hangout buddy).

- The last point really makes me furious, the HR Manager who I informed made the whole incident a "work performance issue". They had a meeting with the ones who I had problem with and the department manager, but did not include me. They later called me to tell me that them and the manager working on a plan to get me up to speed on my work! This is after being almost a year on the job. They just twisted the whole thing and made into something totally different. At that point I knew it was time for me to quit, because if I didn't my life would most certainly be a living hell (nobody was even talking to me the last three month anyways from my team).


I am going to appeal, but need some help. Do you know how the appeal process work? Will there be an actual court hearing where they will want me to attend?

Again, I appreciate all the help I can get!

 

[Chyvan]

It's an appeal REQUEST. Just submit the "determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled." Come back when you get hearing packet.

 

[commentator]

As you've been told, just turn the paperwork in with your "I disagree with this decision and wish to file an appeal." That's all you need to say right now. BE SURE you get this in within the time allowed, because an untimely request for appeal means no appeal, no matter what. While you are doing the appeals process, make sure you are also doing the weekly certifications for benefits which you should have began doing as soon as you filed the claim after the first week passed. If you were to be approved after the appeals hearing, you'd be backpaid only for weeks you have certified for since the claim was filed. You mentioned that it has been several months since you quit.

What the employer told the system gave them quite enough evidence, in the opinion of the first adjudicator, to show that you did not have a valid reason to quit your job and had exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting the job. Now in the second appeal, the hearing, you will have an opportunity to present your reason for quitting and your demonstration that you did make all reasonable efforts to resolve the situation before quitting. We have some absolutely invincible and determined coaches here who will be willing to work and work with you regarding what to say and do in order to change the decision.

My suggestion is that you abandon the "shotgun and kitchen sink" type argument you are giving for quitting, in which you throw in anything and everything that these people ever did to you that made this a terrible place to work. Pick one good strong reason and bring it all the way through your whole appeal, dealing ONLY with it, not with "and by the way, they also wouldn't let me park in the employee lot" or "I also got docked for three absences unfairly." If it's going to be about workplace bullying, make it only about that.

And by the way, assertions that the supervisor was the friend of the bullies, and that you didn't find it necessary to mention it to them because "they already knew about it" and "they wouldn't have done anything about it anyway" are very weak. Come down very heavily, when you get around to it, on the times that you did formally actually inform first the people doing the "unfair" treatment and then their supervisor that you were receiving unfair treatment and inappropriate comments and bullying.

Keep in mind that unemployment is not needs based. Avoid all arguments based on how much you needed unemployment. Keep in mind that the hearing officer does not want to hear your indignation or what you think of the system or what you think of your low down employer. Can the hostility because the first decision maker in the unemployment system did not listen to enough of your arguments or did not find in your favor. Be polite, succinct and professional in stating your arguments. Deal only with the one issue, and deal only with the relevant facts, keeping in mind the phrases, "valid work related reason to quit the job" and "exhausted all reasonable efforts to resolve the situation." Because that is what the hearing officer is going to be looking for.

 

[commentator]

Incidentally, you can gain a world of knowledge about the process by going back and reading the past threads on here about unemployment appeals and hearings. No, it is not a court situation, it is an agency hearing. There will be an opportunity for you and your employer to be present, either in person or over the telephone. If you have an option to do so, in my opinion it is usually better to select an in person hearing, as it is much more trouble for the employer to have to appear in person to make their arguments that you voluntarily quit the job and therefore they should not have to pay (in higher rates) for you to draw unemployment benefits. Whether they show up or not, you will still have to present your argument that your decision denying benefits should be reversed. These hearings are set up so that you should not need and would not be benefitted by having an attorney represent you, they are designed to be a situation where most normal people can self represent. You do not have to cite unemployment law or object or cross examine your employer, you just tell your facts about the situation, and they tell their facts about the situation, and the adjudicator/judge/ hearing appeals officer (whatever they are called in your state system) will listen and determine which party is most believable, and which party has the more valid argument as to whether benefits should be approved or denied. You must, in order to be eligible, be out of work through no fault of your own.

It is greatly complicating the issue that you did at some point try to "protect your references" by saying to the employer that you were quitting due to personal issues or some other reason other than the reason you are now going to argue. They are sure to bring that up. But give the appeal a good try.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

Incidentally, you can gain a world of knowledge about the process by going back and reading the past threads on here about unemployment appeals and hearings. No, it is not a court situation, it is an agency hearing. There will be an opportunity for you and your employer to be present, either in person or over the telephone. If you have an option to do so, in my opinion it is usually better to select an in person hearing, as it is much more trouble for the employer to have to appear in person to make their arguments that you voluntarily quit the job and therefore they should not have to pay (in higher rates) for you to draw unemployment benefits. Whether they show up or not, you will still have to present your argument that your decision denying benefits should be reversed. These hearings are set up so that you should not need and would not be benefitted by having an attorney represent you, they are designed to be a situation where most normal people can self represent. You do not have to cite unemployment law or object or cross examine your employer, you just tell your facts about the situation, and they tell their facts about the situation, and the adjudicator/judge/ hearing appeals officer (whatever they are called in your state system) will listen and determine which party is most believable, and which party has the more valid argument as to whether benefits should be approved or denied. You must, in order to be eligible, be out of work through no fault of your own.

It is greatly complicating the issue that you did at some point try to "protect your references" by saying to the employer that you were quitting due to personal issues or some other reason other than the reason you are now going to argue. They are sure to bring that up. But give the appeal a good try.

Thank you so much for putting in the time to write back. I was wondering can the employer be represented by any of its employees?

Again thank you!

 

[AlphaRadiation]

As you've been told, just turn the paperwork in with your "I disagree with this decision and wish to file an appeal." That's all you need to say right now. BE SURE you get this in within the time allowed, because an untimely request for appeal means no appeal, no matter what. While you are doing the appeals process, make sure you are also doing the weekly certifications for benefits which you should have began doing as soon as you filed the claim after the first week passed. If you were to be approved after the appeals hearing, you'd be backpaid only for weeks you have certified for since the claim was filed. You mentioned that it has been several months since you quit.

What the employer told the system gave them quite enough evidence, in the opinion of the first adjudicator, to show that you did not have a valid reason to quit your job and had exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting the job. Now in the second appeal, the hearing, you will have an opportunity to present your reason for quitting and your demonstration that you did make all reasonable efforts to resolve the situation before quitting. We have some absolutely invincible and determined coaches here who will be willing to work and work with you regarding what to say and do in order to change the decision.

My suggestion is that you abandon the "shotgun and kitchen sink" type argument you are giving for quitting, in which you throw in anything and everything that these people ever did to you that made this a terrible place to work. Pick one good strong reason and bring it all the way through your whole appeal, dealing ONLY with it, not with "and by the way, they also wouldn't let me park in the employee lot" or "I also got docked for three absences unfairly." If it's going to be about workplace bullying, make it only about that.

And by the way, assertions that the supervisor was the friend of the bullies, and that you didn't find it necessary to mention it to them because "they already knew about it" and "they wouldn't have done anything about it anyway" are very weak. Come down very heavily, when you get around to it, on the times that you did formally actually inform first the people doing the "unfair" treatment and then their supervisor that you were receiving unfair treatment and inappropriate comments and bullying.

Keep in mind that unemployment is not needs based. Avoid all arguments based on how much you needed unemployment. Keep in mind that the hearing officer does not want to hear your indignation or what you think of the system or what you think of your low down employer. Can the hostility because the first decision maker in the unemployment system did not listen to enough of your arguments or did not find in your favor. Be polite, succinct and professional in stating your arguments. Deal only with the one issue, and deal only with the relevant facts, keeping in mind the phrases, "valid work related reason to quit the job" and "exhausted all reasonable efforts to resolve the situation." Because that is what the hearing officer is going to be looking for.

I agree the "shotgun and kitchen sink" is a weak argument. Would you suggest following more of a story? There were several major incidents that involved couple of people. Would you recommend mentioning what happened in a timeline format, with highlighting just the main clauses? Which is something I actually did in my report to UI.


You are right, "I didn't tell them because they're friends" will not work in the law. From an emotional perspective, it was a constant nightmare of should I tell them or not. I definitely did make mentions to them and they became aware of the situation. However, very little happened. Like I said they were in on the bullying against other folks.

I was not expecting much and would not expect much either in the appeal. The former employer got what they want. I was hoping that unemployment after quitting will be short stane and they would at least get me a good reference. Nope, not even that was possible.

 

[Chyvan]

can the employer be represented by any of its employees?

Yes, but because quitters have the burden of proof and rarely know what they are doing, the employer doesn't usually even have to show up.