Filed for UI Because in Need of Govt Help

[AlphaRadiation]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona

I just filed for unemployment benefits after a couple months quitting my previous job. I filed under the intend of harassment/discrimination. It was voluntary quit, so I know my chances are slim to obtain UI. But, my reasons are valid.

I left my position at the former company because of recurring abuses and harassments. In my first week with the former company, I was accused by former member of "cheating" on my education, because that is what they also did according to them! I was told to quit if not happy here, shouted at and micro-managed constantly. I have went to the manager on several occasions and the second time they asked if me coming in with complaints will be a common recurring. I had to suck it up as they say and find my grounds in the company. However, things were hardly improving. Later on, I was thrown out of a meeting by another senior member because my questions were irritating or "dumb". I was told a racist remark by another employee. The last straw I faced when I was being questioned about my performance in a team meeting by a person who did not have the authority over me. Other problems that incurred was forcing junior members to take in more work than can be managed, actual physical harassments which they considered as jokes that happened to other colleagues of mine and at my last three months with them I felt completely shunned by the people I worked with. I did go to my manager about four times, talked to them about moving to different projects that are not with my harassers and eventually I messaged HR to step in, but all my attempts were fruitless.

One funny and sad incident when I quit. My resignation letter stated the workplace was part of the reason and another reason I made up that I had to leave due to family matters. I did to hopefully stay in good terms in case my future employers call them. But, the HR person was not pleased, they had a long conversation with me where they said "we thought we addressed your concern and had a plan for you to perform better" (they twisted my complaint and made it a performance issue) and eventually I chickened out and changed the resignation letter to just show that I quit due to family matter, which is really something I foolishly made up to run away from this terrible employer. However, the original resignation letter I gave to the manager contained the original clause that had "due to workplace environment".

I am not sure if I have a slight chance at unemployment benefits, but would like your help in the following:

I got a letter today asking me couple of clarifying questions from the DES. One question asked if I continued working there will it have created "severe nervous strain", then it says if answered "yes" to provide medical proof. I unfortunately, did not seek medical help, but quite honestly my voluntary quit was because of this reason. I noticed my health was worsening, stressing out, depressed, to the point where I started getting gray hair and etc...
In addition, I have written a report of every incident that happened to me and the names of those who were responsible, and also includes who I reported the incident to. Do you recommend just attaching this report I made to the list of questions the DES is asking? OR should I just use the (very) small space they provided to answer their questions?

Thank you all

 

[FlyingRon]

With the possible exception of the racist comment, there's nothing the least bit justifying here for you to quit the job and expect unemployment. Even to have a "hostile work environment" it's going to take more than a racist comment.

Of course, you'll never know if you will qualify for benefits unless you try.

You can write indications of how your health has allegedly deteriorated. Yes, attach additional paper if you want. Alas, you might be better off if you could get someone qualified (doctor, psychologist, social worker, anybody) to attest to the situation rather than your own self-assessment. Note, there's a double edged sword. Unless you've gotten better, you might be considered not eligible to see and obtain employment further disqualifying you from benefits.

I feel for you, but being stuck in a crappy situation to the point where its bothering you severely is just one of those things many of us have (or have had to) put up. You tough it out until you can find another job (or get fired and then will have less problems getting benefits).

 

[commentator]

Quote: "With the possible exception of the racist comment, there's nothing the least bit justifying here for you to quit the job and expect unemployment. Even to have a "hostile work environment" it's going to take more than a racist comment."

And I am sorry to have to tell you that even a racist comment your employer or someone on the job allegedly said to you isn't going to have much to do with whether or not you qualify for unemployment benefits.

What they are digging for when they ask very pointedly about your health is whether or not you are now able, available and actively seeking other work. So you didn't go to the doctor when your job was stressing you, that's okay. if you were so stressed, ill, unwell that you would have been unable to do the job with a doctor's statement at that time, and they had then fired you, you'd have had a much better chance.

But when you leave a job and file for unemployment insurance, they want to know why you are no longer working. Since both you and the employer originally gave evidence that you voluntarily quit for family reasons, it's going to be tough at this point to rescind all of that, claim harassment and a horrible work situation such that you had exhausted "all reasonable alternatives to quitting the job." You can tell this to the unemployment section, you can attach the letter detailing the terrible things that happened to you on this job, and the times that you spoke with the employer and the things you were told. You can detail how the HR person encouraged you to sign the letter that said you quit for family reasons as a form of threat that in order to get a good reference you had to sign it. You have absolutely nothing to lose by doing this. The agency will explore the issues before they issue you a decision.

But don't I do not expect much from this thrashing, to be perfectly honest. You mishandled the situation in that you did not allow them to be the drivers. To be able to draw unemployment benefits, which are not needs based and are not given to you because of how bad you need them, you must be able to show you are out of a job through no fault of your own.

What they were trying to do was make your job so awful for you that you decided to quit. They were successful. When you are approved for unemployment benefits, they are charged more on their unemployment taxes. They know that if you quit, as opposed to being terminated without a very valid misconduct reason, you have a much smaller chance to draw benefits. So they lead you right into quitting, for "family reasons" if they can get you to say that. And they did. Once that ship has been launched, it's hard to call it back and now show a valid work related reason to quit, one where you made every reasonable effort to solve the problems with your employer before quitting, and failed. Treating you mean, stressing you out, giving you unfair assignments, none of that is illegal for them to do to you, or enough to get you unemployment if you quit the job for family. reasons.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

With the possible exception of the racist comment, there's nothing the least bit justifying here for you to quit the job and expect unemployment. Even to have a "hostile work environment" it's going to take more than a racist comment.

Of course, you'll never know if you will qualify for benefits unless you try.

You can write indications of how your health has allegedly deteriorated. Yes, attach additional paper if you want. Alas, you might be better off if you could get someone qualified (doctor, psychologist, social worker, anybody) to attest to the situation rather than your own self-assessment. Note, there's a double edged sword. Unless you've gotten better, you might be considered not eligible to see and obtain employment further disqualifying you from benefits.

I feel for you, but being stuck in a crappy situation to the point where its bothering you severely is just one of those things many of us have (or have had to) put up. You tough it out until you can find another job (or get fired and then will have less problems getting benefits).

Thank you for getting back to me.

That is what I am doing. I am thinking if my chances would have been better have I said "family reason" on the UI form, but both the employer and I truly know that was not the case. There were other before me who quit because of the constant mistreatment they received as well.

Thankfully, My health did get better (no more nervous breakdowns or anxiety). Another thing that happened as well, which is kind of off topic. We had a roof leak that forced my family to live outside of their home, which happened at the time of my unemployment. I am not sure if that matters to DES, but most expenses incurred out of pocket.

Your last statement is definitely easier said than done. When you are shunned for more than three months by colleagues, because they are afraid to upset the big and powerful work bully. Or, not being able to seek work help from colleagues because of their condescending or demeaning attitude towards you.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

Quote: "With the possible exception of the racist comment, there's nothing the least bit justifying here for you to quit the job and expect unemployment. Even to have a "hostile work environment" it's going to take more than a racist comment."

And I am sorry to have to tell you that even a racist comment your employer or someone on the job allegedly said to you isn't going to have much to do with whether or not you qualify for unemployment benefits.

What they are digging for when they ask very pointedly about your health is whether or not you are now able, available and actively seeking other work. So you didn't go to the doctor when your job was stressing you, that's okay. if you were so stressed, ill, unwell that you would have been unable to do the job with a doctor's statement at that time, and they had then fired you, you'd have had a much better chance.

But when you leave a job and file for unemployment insurance, they want to know why you are no longer working. Since both you and the employer originally gave evidence that you voluntarily quit for family reasons, it's going to be tough at this point to rescind all of that, claim harassment and a horrible work situation such that you had exhausted "all reasonable alternatives to quitting the job." You can tell this to the unemployment section, you can attach the letter detailing the terrible things that happened to you on this job, and the times that you spoke with the employer and the things you were told. You can detail how the HR person encouraged you to sign the letter that said you quit for family reasons as a form of threat that in order to get a good reference you had to sign it. You have absolutely nothing to lose by doing this. The agency will explore the issues before they issue you a decision.

But don't I do not expect much from this thrashing, to be perfectly honest. You mishandled the situation in that you did not allow them to be the drivers. To be able to draw unemployment benefits, which are not needs based and are not given to you because of how bad you need them, you must be able to show you are out of a job through no fault of your own.

What they were trying to do was make your job so awful for you that you decided to quit. They were successful. When you are approved for unemployment benefits, they are charged more on their unemployment taxes. They know that if you quit, as opposed to being terminated without a very valid misconduct reason, you have a much smaller chance to draw benefits. So they lead you right into quitting, for "family reasons" if they can get you to say that. And they did. Once that ship has been launched, it's hard to call it back and now show a valid work related reason to quit, one where you made every reasonable effort to solve the problems with your employer before quitting, and failed. Treating you mean, stressing you out, giving you unfair assignments, none of that is illegal for them to do to you, or enough to get you unemployment if you quit the job for family. reasons.

I have actually informed HR about the racist comment, the accuser blantly denied it of course. However, the funny thing when they said it, later in the day they did apologize to me before leaving home. At the time, I decided to keep it at that and not inform management. However, this person's behavior did not change and continued their clumsy attitude towards me even at team meetings making fun of the way I speak, calling me names and micro-managing every step I do.

I did not go to the doctor, because I thought I can cope in on my own. Unfortunately, things just got worse. It did not help the fact that my family has a history of depression and hypomania.

I admit, I mishandled my situation and wanted to eject ASAP. I was hoping to find a job right away and they would be at least a "good" reference. However, that did not accumulate. To add to my misery, I spoke to my direct manager if they would be giving me good reference if I added them as a reference. I was not expecting much from them, they said no. Their reason was I am a capable and smart person in my job, but "do not work well in a team setting and always expressive of my opinions". I felt their comment was going to prevent me from finding another job. Nonetheless, I thought luckily enough HR said that "they will not go into details if someone called and will only offer basic info". Furthermore, The sad part, my direct manager once told me I had strong "people management skills"


The funny thing I knew they were trying to box me out. We all knew both the employer and I why I am leaving. I honestly thought HR might do something because of the HR manager experience and they might be better in handling "conflict-resolution" than my direct manager. But, HR just proved they work for the employer not the employee. My direct manager was even laughing that I reached out to HR.

Here is what I am going to do:
I am going to prepare a document that answers the DES questions and attached to the letter. In addition, I am going to include the report I made. I will elaborate on the HR call I had with them. My report details include: time incident happened, party involved, what happened, what I did to resolve or report the issue.


Thank you all again

 

[commentator]

Also, just to be positive, be sure you are making the required weekly certifications for benefits. If you were to be approved, you'd be back paid only for weeks that you had certified for since you filed the claim.

Be well organized in your responses to the adjudicator's questions. Keep in mind that in spite of what you signed, you did NOT quit the job due to family reasons. You quit the job because of the terrible awful working conditions, after making management aware of the working conditions and situations that you were having trouble with, and making every reasonable effort to solve the problems without quitting the job. You decided that you had no reasonable alternative to quitting, because the job was causing you extreme emotional distress in spite of your good faith efforts to do a good job and to work out the situations with the employer. You could even say that you felt there was a concentrated effort to force you out by treating you significantly badly once you had begun to speak to people and try to get the situation changed.

But remember, the unemployment system is not the EEOC. It is not their job to provide you with unemployment just because you were exposed to racist comments or some sort of illegal mistreatment due to sex, race, creed, religion, etc. There's no automatic thing that if someone said something racist to you, that bears more weight than if they said they didn't like your green socks today. Don't make too big a deal of anything except that you spoke with your managers and with HR, and attempted to resolve the situation.

It is my suspicion that you will probably be denied in the initial appeal. If this happens, you will receive a notification that you have been denied, probably because you voluntarily quit your last job for personal reasons. You continue to make weekly certifications. You file an appeal, in which you do not have to make your argument, you merely state that you disagree with this decision denying you unemployment benefits and you wish to appeal it.

You will be given a time and place for a second hearing, at which the employer may also be present. At this time, another hearing officer will listen to both sides of the case and make a new decision about whether to grant unemployment. You never again mention that you signed something saying you quit for family reasons. You will, in this hearing, if you are asked about why you signed this, simply explain that you were told or encouraged to say this, rather than referencing the terrible work situation, so that you would be able to get a good reference from them.

 

[cbg]

I also want to emphasize something here.

A single racist comment is not enough to sustain a claim of illegal harassment, discrimination, or to create a hostile work environment, even if it was reported and even if no one did anything about it. Of what you have posted, that is the only thing that even begins to approach illegal treatment, and frankly, it's not enough.

I am not saying that you were not treated badly. I am saying that, with certain limits employers are allowed to treat their employees badly, and nothing you have posted suggests that those limits were reached. So while I do not deny that it may have been a bad environment and that quitting may have been your best option, no laws were violated by the employer. You were not treated illegally. The employer did not have a legal obligation to do anything about your environment. Sometimes HR takes the position that it is not their job to make all employees play nicely in the sandbox together, and that adults should be able to resolve such issues without intervention. There is merit to that position.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

Also, just to be positive, be sure you are making the required weekly certifications for benefits. If you were to be approved, you'd be back paid only for weeks that you had certified for since you filed the claim.

Be well organized in your responses to the adjudicator's questions. Keep in mind that in spite of what you signed, you did NOT quit the job due to family reasons. You quit the job because of the terrible awful working conditions, after making management aware of the working conditions and situations that you were having trouble with, and making every reasonable effort to solve the problems without quitting the job. You decided that you had no reasonable alternative to quitting, because the job was causing you extreme emotional distress in spite of your good faith efforts to do a good job and to work out the situations with the employer. You could even say that you felt there was a concentrated effort to force you out by treating you significantly badly once you had begun to speak to people and try to get the situation changed.

But remember, the unemployment system is not the EEOC. It is not their job to provide you with unemployment just because you were exposed to racist comments or some sort of illegal mistreatment due to sex, race, creed, religion, etc. There's no automatic thing that if someone said something racist to you, that bears more weight than if they said they didn't like your green socks today. Don't make too big a deal of anything except that you spoke with your managers and with HR, and attempted to resolve the situation.

It is my suspicion that you will probably be denied in the initial appeal. If this happens, you will receive a notification that you have been denied, probably because you voluntarily quit your last job for personal reasons. You continue to make weekly certifications. You file an appeal, in which you do not have to make your argument, you merely state that you disagree with this decision denying you unemployment benefits and you wish to appeal it.

You will be given a time and place for a second hearing, at which the employer may also be present. At this time, another hearing officer will listen to both sides of the case and make a new decision about whether to grant unemployment. You never again mention that you signed something saying you quit for family reasons. You will, in this hearing, if you are asked about why you signed this, simply explain that you were told or encouraged to say this, rather than referencing the terrible work situation, so that you would be able to get a good reference from them.

I really thank you for taking the time to offer your advice. Really helpful. Unfortunately, at the end of the day Arizona is an 'at will' State. I will take my case to the end and exhaust an appeal if it comes to that, irregardless.

 

[AlphaRadiation]

I also want to emphasize something here.

A single racist comment is not enough to sustain a claim of illegal harassment, discrimination, or to create a hostile work environment, even if it was reported and even if no one did anything about it. Of what you have posted, that is the only thing that even begins to approach illegal treatment, and frankly, it's not enough.

I am not saying that you were not treated badly. I am saying that, with certain limits employers are allowed to treat their employees badly, and nothing you have posted suggests that those limits were reached. So while I do not deny that it may have been a bad environment and that quitting may have been your best option, no laws were violated by the employer. You were not treated illegally. The employer did not have a legal obligation to do anything about your environment. Sometimes HR takes the position that it is not their job to make all employees play nicely in the sandbox together, and that adults should be able to resolve such issues without intervention. There is merit to that position.

Thank you for replying back.

This is somewhat off topic, but sometimes I realize all these great values our Nation has, they really do not apply at the workplace. You are at the mercy of your employer from everything (financially, healthcare, retirement and etc..). You can very easily go from a middle class to a homeless man very quickly. Not to mention, my former employer had really great policies for almost everything, they even had a specific policy for harassment and disrespecting employees. But it was all pen on paper, nothing more. When push comes to shove, the employer is always at an advantage with the law.

 

[cbg]

Responding to something you said upthread; just so you know, 49 out of 50 states are at-will states and the 50th recognizes the at-will doctrine in some situations. It's not just Arizona.

 

[defendmyself]

Well the girl that I replaced, she collected unemployment for 18 months and told them she resigned in liue of termination. That girl is still harrassing my former boss through me ugh!!! Anyway, I am not sure about Arizona but in New Jersey you can quit a job and still collect unemployment using a "reasonable" person standard. What is reasonable to Jersey maybe quite different in Arizona.

 

[Chyvan]

told them she resigned in liue of termination.

This doesn't get treated as a "quit" subject to the "reasonable person" standard. "Quit or be fired" is treated as a firing as long as the claimant can show they'd have been fired had they not quit. Then it's based on would the person have been fired because of something amounting to misconduct. If not, then they collect, but you can't say the person got UI for quitting.

Arizona uses this http://apps.azsos.gov/public_services/Title_06/6-03.pdf in making the decision. What you describe is covered by R6-3-50515(C).

 

[eerelations]

Well the girl that I replaced, she collected unemployment for 18 months and told them she resigned in liue of termination. That girl is still harrassing my former boss through me ugh!!! Anyway, I am not sure about Arizona but in New Jersey you can quit a job and still collect unemployment using a "reasonable" person standard. What is reasonable to Jersey maybe quite different in Arizona.

Post history.

 

[commentator]

Different states all build their unemployment system structures around the federal guidelines, and some are more and some are less lenient in their definition of good cause to quit a job and collect unemployment benefits. But you can assume a few basic things. One is that the unemployment insurance is not needs based, in other words, that you do not get it due to need or personal circumstances, except how they relate to the reason you left the job. And that you must be out of work through no fault of your own, in whatever way the state interprets that phrase in their unemployment policies. As to quit in lieu of termination, there is a term loosely used, 'Got quit' which means that they were going to fire me anyhow, so I quit. An interesting one to adjudicate. Or was offered by the employer a chance to quit in lieu of firing, which the employer's love, because it means the burden of proof that they had good cause to quit the job was upon the claimant, not that the burden of proof that they had good cause to terminate was on the employer.

In the absence of federally funded extensions, which were in place during the recession and have been done away with at now for quite a while, 18 months is longer than anyone would get to draw unemployment benefits under any but the most unusual circumstances. And unemployment benefits are very private information, in that you would not have access to information about the claim or the decisions or the circumstances of the person who worked where you did before you were there unless you were directly involved with or had access to her approval or denial paperwork and even that might not provide the whole picture.

 

[cbg]

Post history.

Also not the OP.